Bomber's Trek: TNG 1x12 Datalore

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Discovery going throttle up. [00:00:10] Speaker B: 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. [00:00:26] Speaker A: Hello out there and welcome back to another episode of the Star Trek Warp Top 10 Podcast. What is happening, Trek lovers? I am your co host, Phil Rizzo, and as always, I'm joined by Brian Bomber Parks. What is up, Bomber? [00:00:44] Speaker B: How the hell are you? We got another one of these bullshit Star Trek episodes here. We're ready to dissect. [00:00:49] Speaker A: I don't think you've ever, ever been. Not been, you know, laughingly negative, like, at the beginning of these pods, you know, I mean, like, you've never not made a joke about how ridiculous it is. I think it's hilarious. [00:01:02] Speaker B: Well, you know, it's. I gotta, you know, have a little fun bashing it while I'm watching it and enjoying it. So what can we do? [00:01:08] Speaker A: Yeah, no, of course, you know, it's funny. I know you've heard Luke and I mentioned the nitpickers guides before that came out in the 90s. All that guy does is rip apart these episodes, you know, I mean, like, all he does is talk about. He's like that, the pitch meeting YouTube guy, you know, Ryan George. That dude's hilarious. It's like, so this guy just tore apart. He loves Trek and he loves everything about it, but, you know, because he loves it, he's allowed to, like, tear it apart. And that's kind of what we do. And that's, that's, you know, so you're in the same vein as, as Phil Ferrari. So that, that's kind of funny. Yeah, we're back with another Bombers Trek. It's been a while. You know, I know we put out the, the solo pod, you know, Next Gen Season 5 ran solo on that one. But yeah, we're back. We're back with a big one. This is a big. From season one. Very, very curious to see what you think about this. You know, season one, like I said, is very uneven and you know that I've given you many disclaimers about that, but this is one of the. If it's not a great episode, and it might be, it is still like a landmark episode because it introduces one of the main foils, you know, going forward. You know, the character that you're introduced to Lore in this episode is in a couple more episodes through the series. So we do see him again, you know, spoiler alert. Like, like two years from now when you're on season five, like, you're gonna forget that. But. But yeah, no big episode. So. So, yeah, I'm excited to, to talk to you about it. What do you. What do you think about that? [00:02:34] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean, you know, it's not, you know, I mean, it's like you said, it's a character, obviously, that's gonna be memorable. So when he does pop up again, I'll definitely be like, oh, there's, you know. And now Data Lore. His brother's name is Lore, but it's also, like, the lore of his story or fan. Right. Is that where we go into here? [00:02:52] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I'm not sure I got that in 1987, but, you know, shortly thereafter, I hope. [00:02:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it doesn't seem like. I mean, if I could figure that out, I'm sure everybody that watches the show figured that shit out. What are we doing here? [00:03:03] Speaker A: Well, I'll tell you what, like, as far as the titles go, like, they didn't do a lot of that. Like, Star Trek titles, which is ironic because Star Trek, as Luke and I have talked about, is one of the only shows where most of the series have their titles on screen. Like, most, you know, shows don't really do that. Aaron Sorkin shows do that and blah, blah, blah. But so you would think since their titles are on air, they would give a little more care to sort of how they name them. And Lord knows there's been some great names. Case in point, last night I watched. I rewatched the original series episode. Oh, God, what is it? It is for the World Is Hollow and I have Touched the Sky is the name of the episode of the original series. It's a pretty cool title. I would liked if they didn't say it twice in the episode. But they did. But still, a lot of the episodes are like, you know, Brothers Schisms, you know. [00:03:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:55] Speaker A: You know, I don't know. Stars. Goodbye. Right, like that. You know what I mean? Where it's, you know, they don't really go too double entendre or too poetic with it, but every once in a while, they hit it out of the park. This is one of the ones that they're kind of like, all right, let's call it Data Lore. It's kind of cool. I hope they didn't name him Lore because of that title, which happens sometimes. [00:04:13] Speaker B: And what about Hide and Q? That was a ghost. What did you think of that title? [00:04:19] Speaker A: That's ridiculous. We talked about how that makes no sense at all. Hide and Deja Q. We get it. Deja vu. Like, we understand Hide and Q. I still haven't figured that one out. [00:04:30] Speaker B: No. [00:04:31] Speaker A: But, yeah. Hey, so we're back with another episode. It's data Lore. And yeah, and we're going to talk about it, you know, so, yeah, before we do that, check out our content on, you know, TikTok threads, Instagram. You can email us, check it all out at twarp10 and you can email [email protected]. and if you're interested in podcasts in general, check out Bomber and I. We have another pod called Men of a Certain Five where we break down the top five. Everything from the whole world, obviously, no Trek in that one, just movies, tv, books. We just put out historical figures and we have our top five movie theater experiences coming out soon. So you can check that out wherever you get your podcasts. And yeah, you know, we're trying to. We're trying to put at least one of each of these pods out per month. We'd love to do more. We'd love to be able to do this full time and get paid for it, but right now that's not the case. We're just trying to live our lives and get these out there to you, but we're gonna do that as fast as we can. Yeah, that's been fun doing the other pod, Bomber, right? [00:05:35] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you know, you never know, you know, what the hell we're gonna get into there with different topics there. We try to come up with something that we want to talk about and, you know, it branches it out a little bit. Rather than talking about fucking Kirk and, you know, Spock making out, you know. [00:05:50] Speaker A: You know. You know, it's funny about that you say that, but, you know, I'm reading this book, actually, Troy and I are reading this book, Phasers on Stun. It's about the history of Star Trek and how it affected the world and blah, blah, blah. And like, there are. There is plenty of fan fiction out there where Kirk and Spock are lovers. There's plenty. Like, really? Oh, yeah, yeah, tons of it. You know, I think the way in which they filmed the original series and the way in which the characters interacted in on television back then sort of lends itself to these sort of homosexual undertones, you know. Now, don't get me wrong, like, you know, I. That could have been how some of those writers, you know, intended those characters to be, you know, DC Fontana, one of the great writers of the original series, a female. She. She sort of hint. Has hinted at that over the years that there were, you know, certain, you know, undertones that they were, you know, kind of. They kind of thought maybe I never saw it, you know, but, you know, if that's how you want to, you know, interpret, you know, this. This show, interpret it that way, you know, do what you want to do. You know, I think. I think you can kind of see it in a lot of different ways. And with science fiction, you know, Even in the 60s, you know, there's a lot of stuff that's sort of open to debate and abstract. So that's kind of what's good about science fiction. It can go any direction you want, and it means something different to everybody. Right? Yeah. [00:07:10] Speaker B: You know, I was just thinking about fan fiction in general. I've never been a big fan fiction, you know, not that I never wanted to, but I kind of always was curious. But I never really read any of the Star wars books or Indiana Jones or, you know, anything that I was a movie or a TV fan of. I never read it to other nonsense there. You know what I mean? [00:07:29] Speaker A: And I think we know why. Right? Like you and I, like, we both love canon, right? Like something about the. The official canon of certain, you know, franchises intrigues us. We don't want to, you know, I don't want to get engulfed. I should say I haven't gotten engulfed in, you know, offshoots of these franchises because in my head, they're not official offshoots. Now, that being said, you know, Peter David, the great Peter David, Rest in Peace aside, you know, I devoured those novels like they were. They were canon, you know, and as I mentioned in that pod, some of that stuff has become canon, which is kind of interesting. But, yeah, I'm with you for the most part. I was never a fan fiction kind of guy. That being said as well, I've said that twice. Now, that being said, when Buffy ended, you better believe I gobbled up those comic books that Joss Whedon and some of the creatives wrote behind it, which was considered canon. I don't know if it will still be canon when the new Buffy TV show comes out because it is a continuation of the original show. So I don't know if those comics will remain canon. I'm really curious to see if that's the case, but other than that, I'm with you. It's. It's just. I'm not a fan fiction guy. [00:08:34] Speaker B: Let me just give me a second. I want to go chase down some of the listeners that just left because you said the word Buffy. No, I'm just kidding. [00:08:41] Speaker A: I know. [00:08:41] Speaker B: I know you. I never watched it, so I can. [00:08:44] Speaker A: No, I mean, it's a show called Buffy the Vampire. Like, I get it. That's what. I didn't. I didn't watch it for years when people were telling me, oh, you like. You like sci fi fantasy. You love this. I mean, I. When I sell it to dudes, I'm like, it's hot chicks. It's, you know, sci fi and it's martial arts. Like, you know, there's kind of. It's kind of, you know, he's easy to sell, if you think about it. And with. With, you know, women. I'm trying to get into it. I'm always like, well, you know, there's so many. It's so many twists and turns. You'll really get into the characters, and it's all true. But like I said a couple pods ago or something, like, at this point, if you're not going to watch the Wire after I recommended it 70 times, just screw you. You know? I mean, like. Like, I don't mean that in a bad way. It's like, I'm past, like, trying to hook people on certain things. You know, my daughter notwithstanding, I still want to, you know, I still want to feel her out and see what I can get her into. But, yeah, other than that, like, you know, like, Troy tried watching the Wire a couple times. He couldn't do it. It baffles me. Like, I don't understand how you could start watching that show and not keep watching it, but. Right. Everybody's different. Luke doesn't like Soundgarden, and that just blows my mind. So I don't understand. I don't understand things like that. [00:09:52] Speaker B: Soundgarden's the band, right? [00:09:53] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's fine. I said that really to tease him because, like, a couple times I was like, are you out of your fucking mind? Like, how do you not at least appreciate some of what they have, you know? But whatever. Yeah, that's just me. So. Yeah, man, let's. Let's. Let's get this train rolling. What do you think? You down? Are you down? [00:10:11] Speaker B: Yeah, let's get. Let's get into the lore here. [00:10:13] Speaker A: All right, let's do it. Data. Lore. So I got a little synopsis here from IMDb. Let's check it out. So, folks, in case you've forgotten, this is the episode where the Enterprise visits the planet where Data was created and discovers another Android like him. But when he's assembled, he's not exactly like him. For better, I've heard worse. But, yeah, that's. That gets the job done, I suppose. So, yeah, this is A. Like I said, this is landmark episode. Let's talk about it, man. Now, I know you have a lot of notes, you said, which is great. Do you want to. You want to take us. Take us off? [00:10:46] Speaker B: Well, I was going to say, you know, I know we've talked about this episode before. Forget if it was something you and Luke had talked about or how it came about, but I know I, of course, always seem to seem to go back to the Dukes of Hazard, which I watched. It's funny, I haven't watched that show in so long, all I'm going off of his memory is kids. We watched it all the time growing up. But that episode I mentioned too many Roscoe's, I think it was called. [00:11:11] Speaker A: Yes, you have mentioned that. Yeah. [00:11:13] Speaker B: Where Roscoe. They have a villain that I forget if he gets plastic surgery or somebody looks just like Roscoe. So they kidnap the real Roscoe, and he comes in and acts like he's the sheriff. And it takes a little time, but they begin to figure out that, oh, Roscoe is not Roscoe. You know, I mean. And I feel like this is like a TV trope. I don't know if it started right here with Data. Data lore, but it seems like it's been in a lot of different TV shows or even movies. You know what I mean? [00:11:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Like the switcheroo where, like, you know, two people look exactly alike, and you got to figure out, you know, who's who. Prince and the Pop infiltrating another. What's that? [00:11:41] Speaker B: Like the Prince and the Pauper, Right? Wasn't that. [00:11:44] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I only know that because of the Simpsons, but. Yeah, and on the story you're talking about. And, folks, listen, join us in 2027 when we launch Dudes of Hazzard pod, where we go through each episode and Bomber will be. I will be tagged along on that one. So. By the way, that's not. That's not a ridiculous idea, by the way. [00:12:04] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think there's a real. [00:12:06] Speaker A: Niche audience, and we probably won't put all this on, but there's a real niche audience for, like, people our age who are, like, want to go back and. Dude, I would totally do that. Since you've seen more episodes. I would. I would watch. We do Phil's Track with the Dudes. [00:12:18] Speaker B: Of Hazard if you want. That'd be fun. It'd be good fun to flip it. [00:12:21] Speaker A: Keep it in the back of your mind for, like, a year or two from now. [00:12:24] Speaker B: Definitely. [00:12:25] Speaker A: Yeah. So. So do you want to. You want to kick Us off. [00:12:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I was gonna say, I. Overall, I want to say it was a very fun episode, but what. We'll talk more about that as we get into this now. I don't know, you know, I know I always have to go into the episode mentioning this if I see my man on the screen there, but, you know, the name of this episode could have easily been, what the hell is Wesley wearing? I mean, you know, now he's back in the Activision shirt, which. Which we've seen before. But the belt that he had on, you know, it looks like he's begging for someone to just come in and kick his ass. Am I missing. Missing something here? Like what. What was he wearing there? [00:13:01] Speaker A: I don't think I ever noticed the belt on Wesley. You are so fixated on it. I love it. [00:13:07] Speaker B: I don't know why, you know, because. Because, like, you know what it is? It's like I'm watching it from today's lens and not knowing anything about the show, you know? [00:13:14] Speaker A: Sure. [00:13:15] Speaker B: But every. Every time he's on the screen, I'm like, how the hell. Now, again, we're talking about a space show, you know, but for some reason, out of everybody's outfits and the weird aliens and walking fucking in dogs or pigs, whatever the fuck we saw on snakes, whatever, this guy's outfit is the most bizarre thing out of anything I've seen. Like, who let this guy go on screen wearing this shit? [00:13:35] Speaker A: You know, like, you want to laugh. They just launched a NCC 1701 D Lego set for the first time. The next gen Enterprise. And they have characters in there. And Wesley, the Lego. Wesley's wearing the goddamn Activision shirt. I swear to God, it's fucking ours. Oh, and folks, this segment of Wesley's wardrobe has been brought to you by J. Crew. [00:13:59] Speaker B: Should be brought to you by the Goodwill Store or wherever the fuck you. [00:14:01] Speaker A: Got that thing brought to you by Atari, I think. All right, so that's good. So we gotta put. So we're starting it from positive, positive note here. You thought the episode was fun. Wesley is still dressed in, like, a weirdo. Got that? [00:14:14] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know. And again, I'm gonna. I'm following along on my notes here. They never go out of order in the episode here or whatever. But you know that now they're showing us where Data was born. Right. [00:14:25] Speaker A: Or where he was born on Omicron Theta, where he was built and found by Starfleet officers. [00:14:32] Speaker B: So this is where he was kind of made. Correct. [00:14:35] Speaker A: Where he was. [00:14:36] Speaker B: I was waiting for them to take the next trip to Riker's old house and showing them his parents bedroom. Be like this is where you were made Riker. [00:14:44] Speaker A: You know, Riker was born in Alaska, FYI. [00:14:49] Speaker B: Was he really? [00:14:49] Speaker A: He was. I have no idea where in Alaska. [00:14:53] Speaker B: But you know, and then they get to Data's planet and they mentioned Data was given the colonists memories. [00:15:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, interesting. So he like memories. [00:15:08] Speaker B: I was wondering if they loaded them in him like Leia loaded R2 with the death Star plans. Like how did he, how did they. Did they get that information to it? [00:15:15] Speaker A: I think it's more like the Matrix, you know, I mean like plugged in the back your head just got. I know kung fu, I know colonists memories. So it's kind of like that. And. Yeah, so. So I don't know if you remember or not. And folks, I apologize because Bomber watched this episode probably a month ago now. We just haven't had a chance to talk about it. So that's on me because I canceled a couple times. So I feel bad. So if his memory is a little fuzzy, it's my fault. But as a reminder. So one of the important things to mention about the planet is that when they last heard of the planet, it was a lush with colonists and greenery and it was a, it was sort of a nice settlement. And then they get there and it's, it's barren and it's a wasteland. So yeah, it's important to note that when we talk about the rest of. [00:16:03] Speaker B: The plot and you know, not to keep this. I don't know why I have the Star wars on my mind here obviously. But after they go into the secret passage. I don't know if you remember what part I'm talking about here. I do like returns. Turn some lights on. And it reminded me of the lights coming on an empire when Lucas in Cloud City, like that, that, that hallway room or you know what I'm talking about. [00:16:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:23] Speaker B: 100 me of that. [00:16:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I can hear. Yeah, I could see that. I could totally see that. Yeah. When they, when all of a sudden the rock face there's like the actual doors and they open up. Yeah, right, okay. Yeah, yep. And that's where they find. That's where they find lore. Of course. [00:16:36] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:37] Speaker A: And. [00:16:37] Speaker B: And now this is, this is. You know, it's funny how you watch some of these things. You know how many episodes in were here we're like, fuck. Well that this is the first time I'm noticing this. Or at least it seems to me maybe it just came A weird thing that Yar calls Riker on the radio. And I don't know what made this. [00:16:52] Speaker A: The radio. [00:16:54] Speaker B: Well, what does it go. [00:16:56] Speaker A: Radio works. It's, it's, it's. It's. I'm just. I'm just. I've never heard it described like that. So, yeah, whatever. [00:17:02] Speaker B: They smack the pin on their chest to talk on the radio. I never noticed that before. Why did I notice that? [00:17:08] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. So in the Old School series, Kirk would have the little flip phone thing. I don't know if you've ever seen, like, shops, you know, Kirk Danipraz and. And the Insignia was just on the Animated Series. Maybe. Yeah, maybe, maybe. But it's like the old Molarola phones. He would just flip it open and see. [00:17:24] Speaker B: No Kirk, Daniel. [00:17:25] Speaker A: So now they just have the com badge. It's not just a patch on the uniform. It's an actual metal combat. So it's like. It's the communicator. So they could tap that and talk to, you know, talk to the ship. [00:17:35] Speaker B: Maybe it was just Riker did it in a weird way that I noticed it or something. I can't figure out what happened there, but I was like, oh, wow. [00:17:42] Speaker A: It's somewhat inconsistent sometimes. Sometimes they tap their combat. Sometimes they go to the wall in the ship and press a button. It's, you know, it's. It's up and down, but for the most part, they tap their com badge or they just say riker to Enterprise, and that automatically connects them. So, you know, it's. It's a technology that we don't have, you know, completely defined, but gets the job done. [00:18:03] Speaker B: And what about. I was gonna say when Data. Now, when Data finds the molding of his face or whatever. That was pretty. That was pretty cool. [00:18:09] Speaker A: I thought that was cool. And it was a great production design job because when he put it on, it was exactly face. So they must have really, you know, used his face as a mold to do that. That was well done, I thought, by the production team. [00:18:19] Speaker B: Yeah. And when they were trying to build Data's family, family member there, they probably could have used some ugnaughts, I thought, you know, some what? You know what I'm talking about. Those guys from Cloud City, whatever the hell they are. You know, whatever the hell they're. [00:18:33] Speaker A: Empire theme I got you. I got you. [00:18:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:18:36] Speaker A: Ugnaughts. Hey, you know what's. You know, it's funny. I just sold a. I just started selling off my old Star wars figures. I just made $400 for nice. 69 of them. And none of them are the valuable ones, actually, I Yoda, but wow, I sold. I sold. Like, apparently there's the final 17 that Kenner put out are, like, really valuable. I didn't know that. I only sold them 50 bucks. I got offers for 150 right after that. Like, I could have made like a hundred dollars more, but yeah, no, I've made like 400 bucks so far. Just selling the Star wars figures in the last few days. [00:19:10] Speaker B: They still have them. I was wondering if the market faded for them since the movies have not really been the best lately or whatever, but it seems like people are still. [00:19:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know, you know, I lost track of all the collectibles and baseball cards and I don't know what anything's worth anymore, which, case in point. Which is why I got a. You know, I got a little hosed on the. Not hose. It was my fault, but I undervalued the one set, and so many people were just like, oh, my God, I would have given you 150. Those are so good. I'm like, I don't know. I just wanted to make some extra cash. Anyway, I used to like the Ugnaught, the little blue apron he had. And you know, as a kid, like, any of. Any of the ones that had, like, the felt, I really thought those were cool. Those are cool figures. So anyway, that's. [00:19:47] Speaker B: I had to mention that because I think the Emperor's Royal Guard had the red. The red cape kind of thing. Like it felt the same thing. [00:19:53] Speaker A: Yep. Yeah, those were cool. Those are my favorites, actually, when I was a kid. So. Yeah. So, yeah, they could have used some. Some Ugnaughts or some Oompa Loompas or something to do like this. This surgery on. On Data and Lore. [00:20:06] Speaker B: I thought. Another funny moment here. I was gonna say Picard tells Data, you operate as well as we do. Data says, better and better. In some ways, sir, Picard looked like he was gonna ready to disassemble Data right there. When he said that line to him, I was dying. [00:20:22] Speaker A: Well, it's funny, you know, Remember in the pilot episode, Data said something very similar to Riker. And Riker had a similar reaction, you know, when Riker was like, now that does concern me. Do you consider yourself superior? And he's like, I am superior, sir, in many ways, but I give it all up to be human. But at first record was like, you know. Well, that does. That does concern me a little. You think you're superior? You know, so he's just kind of a matter of fact about it. But that's a nice catch because that's kind of a callback to the original series, to the pilot. [00:20:51] Speaker B: And then now another hilarious moment. I thought, I gotta put this out there. I love when, when Data has Crusher touch him to feel how different parts of him work. Yes, I know. I was in my mind, I was like, couldn't they have bought Tasha in for that? I mean, she knows how she banged him, right? I mean, you know, am I losing. [00:21:11] Speaker A: My mind here, Lieutenant Yar? It is not in my front. That was kind of cool, though. That's. That comes into play again. So that's not just a one off. So Data's, you know, main shut off valve back there is a. It sets a useful information to know going forward. [00:21:31] Speaker B: No. All right, all right. So now refresh my memory. Now, before I go back to these notes here, where are we in the episode here? So they come upon his area where he was made and all that. Right. And then, then they find his brother there or whatever it is. The. [00:21:44] Speaker A: Yeah. They find the disassembled parts of an Android similar to Data. So they bring it on the ship and Jordy begins to. Jordan Crusher, I guess, begin to assemble him, and then he gets assembled and then, you know, they kind of start, you know, introducing him to the parts of the ship and then he's on the bridge messing around with the con and. Yeah, and Riker and I think I'd say actually Picard and Data are kind of discussing, you know, where to go from here, pretty much. Is that where we're at? [00:22:13] Speaker B: Well, I was gonna say, when Laura wakes up, he says. I forget how he comes about saying this, but he mentions that Data was imperfect. [00:22:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. So he mentioned that when he talked about Dr. Soon, their creator, you know, he. He created Data first and then he, quote, unquote, improved when he did Lore. You know, the. As Data puts it, in another. Another episode, he was referred to as the Model T of androids. And Data is like, well, actually, I'm actually the model H. That would be more accurate because I was not Dr. Soon's first Android. I was the second Android. So that comes into play in all 50s in episodes. So they do keep that consistent as well. Good for you Star Trek writers. But yeah, and I know Lore immediately goes on the offensive, Right. And wants to make Data feel like he's inferior, right? Like he's immediately plotting, which is interesting, but. [00:23:10] Speaker B: And I thought it would have been hilarious too. Like, you Know if Picard and then were like, once he goes, yeah, you know, Data, actually, this is the way it is. That Data was actually imperfect. I am. I was the improvement on him. I would love it if the very next shot was from outside the ship. You just see Data just get chucked the hell out there. Because now, welcome aboard. You know, why do we want the imperfect guy? [00:23:32] Speaker A: No research, no nothing. Just gone. [00:23:35] Speaker B: Take his word for it, you, Honor. [00:23:37] Speaker A: What's that? [00:23:38] Speaker B: They just believe everything he says Instantly. [00:23:43] Speaker A: That's hilarious. So, so, so freaking bomber humor. I love it. The cut outside the ship is just perfect. You. [00:23:51] Speaker B: That's like, you know, that's. Reminds me of the Family Guy. I'll take on the whole Empire myself. The. [00:24:00] Speaker A: Just a little blazer. He's gone hilarious. No, you know what? Real quick, I'm sorry. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention there's. There's a. A great, great Futurama quick shot where, you know, the A story is something else, but the B story is like, Bender. I mean, sorry, Fry is the. I think it's. Fry is the captain of the ship. And it's a disaster. And it's just Fry and Zoidberg. And at some point, when they cut back to that B story, it's just an A establishing shot of the ship getting, like, eaten by this monster. And you just hear Zoidberg yell, it's an honor to serve with you, sir. And that's like. That's the whole story right there. Oh, it's hilarious. Sorry, sorry. I thought we'll leave that in. But that's. Oh, that's great. I gotta send you that clip after this. It's so funny. [00:24:47] Speaker B: I love how in a moment like that, that they get. People have the. The character has the honor of saying something like that. Like, in the moment, you're like, who's saying something like that? You're like, what are we doing here? [00:25:00] Speaker A: I guess that's part of the humor, you know, like, he just. He's gonna die. But he was just happy to have a friend, you know? He's such a loser, this guy, you know? That's so funny. [00:25:09] Speaker B: Now Lore calls Data my brother. [00:25:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:13] Speaker B: And Jordy goes, my brother. That has a nice sound to it. Data, why did they have him be the one to say that? You know? [00:25:21] Speaker A: I guess because he had emotion, right? And Data doesn't. [00:25:25] Speaker B: Jordy did you mean. [00:25:27] Speaker A: Oh, why did Jordy say it? You mean? I think. Why did Lore call him my brother first? [00:25:31] Speaker B: Well, Lore. Lore. I could see Laura Why Lore calls him my brother. [00:25:35] Speaker A: Oh, say, that has a nice sound, my brother. [00:25:38] Speaker B: That has a nice sound to it, Data. You know, I guess because. I guess the reason. One of the reason why I'm asking that is because wasn't. I think you hinted at this at some point, maybe on an earlier pod. But don't they become. Or are they good friends, Jordi and Data? Is there something there? [00:25:54] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. [00:25:56] Speaker B: So I was wondering if this was like, the beginning of him. I don't know, necessarily. Not that they call each other like, you're my brother. You're like, you know, does he look at him like that's his brother, even though they're not brothers kind of thing? Or am I reading way too into that? [00:26:06] Speaker A: You know, I never saw it that way. I always saw it as, like, Jordy was just such a. So fond of Data that he thought it was nice that Data had some kind of familial attachment. You know, I mean, like, that it's nice that my friend now has a brother that he can call a brother. You know what I mean? That's how I took it. Yeah, but that's interesting. I never. I never saw it that way. But. [00:26:25] Speaker B: Yeah, but. But Lore talking about contractions and tomato, potato, potato. I was waiting for Data just to punch him. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, there was something about it that seemed, you know, I guess that's one of these. It's funny you picked up on the idea of Lore planting things immediately about, you know, his superiority. But there's also, like, this. It seems like this innate douchiness to Lore and like a kind of a fun way, the way he is, you know. [00:26:50] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, he's an arrogant prick, really. And, yeah, he. He immediately goes to work on Data, trying to find his vulnerability, trying to figure out he's. He's always. He's always scheming, as you know. Now he's a schemer and he's clever. You know, he's. He's. I feel like if he was introduced in the third or fourth season, he would have been written just a tad better. Like, he could have been like a. Like a big villain, you know, I mean, like, he could have been like a. Like another Q or another, you know, not con, but like another Q or another, like, really good foil as it is. He's fine, but, like, I feel like it was, you know, I feel like he could have been bitten. Written just a tad more subtle. Right? [00:27:30] Speaker B: See? See that. That's something I was gonna. I don't know if I had this in my notes later on, but that is something I definitely wanted to bullshit you about. Was just the idea that again, this, the show is so new still that I'm surprised. [00:27:43] Speaker A: Like this or modern. [00:27:44] Speaker B: Well, no, I'm saying. I'm saying to the public that was watching it when it came out, you know, to me, you know, now it's been around for me, of course, but. [00:27:51] Speaker A: It was only on its 12th episode, you mean? OK, yeah. [00:27:54] Speaker B: And I'm. I'm just saying that, you know, I mean, it's cool to introduce the villain now, so you have him later on for the show if you're gonna bring him back and everything. But I'm just thinking about the fact that with this episode I've had a more impactful hit. If it happened like in season three or four, where you've had more time with Data and now you're meeting the brother and his little origin story or whatever and then seeing, you know, because one of the fun parts about watching this is watching the characters, you know, you're watching them try to figure when is it. When are you gonna. When are they gonna realize that this is not the right guy? I feel like that episode has a more of an impact when you. When you know them more than. You know what I mean, if that makes any. I don't know if I'm making any sense here, you know, I mean, totally does. [00:28:35] Speaker A: Yeah, you were. You mentioned this same sort of issue in. When we talked about the second episode, the Naked now, when they all kind of got drunk and started going against character when they didn't have a character established. [00:28:47] Speaker B: That's another great point. [00:28:49] Speaker A: And it still is a good point because we are only 12 episodes in. We're only halfway through the first. [00:28:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:54] Speaker A: It might have had more of an impact if we had seen this later. Now, I liked it being here because I wanted more information about Data, which we got. He's a very intriguing character. And it was new to Star Trek at the time and Android Starfleet officer. So it was cool to sort of get a little world building with Data, where he came from. And, you know, the fact that we got not one, but two sort of quote unquote villains out of this episode is just sort of a bonus to me. But I see your. [00:29:24] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, another one going along with Wesley's wardrobe now I'm starting to realize that. Another thing I seem to pick up on is these moments that. And I don't know how to. This is not necessarily Star Trek. I think it's just television at the time. It's where, you know, I love this idea because it's like there is this fine line between the action and the sci fi stuff, but then there's like this soap opera esque elements of these, this type of television that kind of creeps in a little bit to me. It's the, it's the looks that the other characters give sometimes, you know. And the one I had written down was when Tasha asked Picard, how much can you trust Data? Now Wesley and Jordan give each other a slow shocked look at each other. That made me, I was on the floor watching this. I was loving it, you know, and again, I don't know, I don't know what, what you do about that. It's one of those things where it's like, I was trying to equate it to like maybe like in a musical. When you're watching a musical, all of a sudden it's nice when they naturally kind of maybe sing a song. But if they just all of a sudden burst into song out of nowhere, you're like, oh, what the hell are we doing here? You know? So for this, it's like, how do you show everything in a close up at the same time? Like they're gonna look at each other. Maybe after that moment you're trying to catch it, but now it's after the moments happen, they're looking at each other. It's awkward that they're looking now. I don't know, you know, I can't figure out what it is about it, but there's something about it that makes me laugh my ass off, you know, I don't know what it is. [00:30:46] Speaker A: It's melodrama as opposed to drama. Right? Like, and I think modern television does not have this anymore, at least not network television. And next gen act breaks aside because, you know, you have to ramp up to every act break in all these shows. And sometimes that includes a character looking at another character as the camera closes up on them. But yeah, yeah, yeah, that does greatly improve after the second season as well with the rest of the show. That all being said though, that's a great line I liked. I kind of forgot about that moment. So I also like that Picard immediately is like, I trust Data completely, Lieutenant. And you should all know that that was a valid security question to ask. Kind of had her back on that one. I like that. And I like that they wrote her because she's thinking like a security officer. Like, I like that. [00:31:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:34] Speaker A: Her first duty is to the safety of the ship. And so all of a sudden, now there's not one Android, there's two androids. Data's still a question mark to your point, right, that we don't know these characters that well yet. Like, no one would ask that in the third season because Data is part. [00:31:48] Speaker B: Of the family at that point. [00:31:49] Speaker A: I mean, they all are. But in this first season, it's still new. They only known each other for, I don't know how long in six months, in real. In their time, who knows? But. [00:31:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:00] Speaker A: That's a great. That's a great character. Character moment there. I really like that about Tashiyar. That was good. [00:32:06] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, and you forget that sometimes when you're watching, you're like, oh, you know, it's. You know, it's important that she's the one to ask that, or whatever, you know, like, big time. [00:32:15] Speaker A: Because you're a little. If you know, at that. Even I remember you're a little offended. You're like, fuck you, fucking. You know, if you love. I trust Data. But then it's like, I get it. Kind of makes sense, you know? [00:32:27] Speaker B: And, you know, I won't keep harping on this, but I had to put this in here. That when Riker asked Wesley to look in on Data, he leaves. Some random guy smiles. And I was dying because it looked like he was smiling. Like, he's really wearing that shit, huh? [00:32:42] Speaker A: Smiles at Wesley or like, after he leaves. [00:32:45] Speaker B: I think he's always at Riker when Wesley leaves, you know? [00:32:48] Speaker A: Oh, it was probably supposed to be like, he's such a good kid, isn't he? Kind of. [00:32:52] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. [00:32:54] Speaker A: But it's like, you believe the kids. He's never gonna get fucking laid with that shirt. He knows that, right? [00:33:02] Speaker B: You know what's funny, too now? [00:33:03] Speaker A: You. [00:33:03] Speaker B: Maybe I was thinking about. It'd be funny if they were like, you know, if someone on the ship was like, you know, we think Lore is pretending to be Data. Tasha, can you go bang him and find out? You know, we'll get the right. We'll figure this out right quick. [00:33:20] Speaker A: You should know within minutes if it's the same guy, if his technique is the same, enjoy yourself and, you know, come back and report. But if it's somebody else, stop it midway. Could you imagine? That's freaking hilarious. Grab his cock is the same size. Which is funny because it probably would be unless. [00:33:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. What are we talking about? You know? [00:33:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. Didn't think we were taking this turn well. [00:33:43] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, we're getting. We're getting into a lot of cutting room floor stuff here. Maybe, I don't know. Or losing listeners. Or maybe we're gaining them. Who knows? [00:33:51] Speaker A: Well, we'll see. We'll see. Maybe I'll just edit it. So you just keep saying penis obsessively. [00:33:55] Speaker B: We. We definitely are not doing a good job on trimming the cursing here, which is my bad here. I got. I'm trying to, you know, I know. [00:34:03] Speaker A: Of cursed at least twice. It's something that I. I can't pay too much attention to if I need to be. If I'm gonna be natural about it, you know, I mean, like, it's something. [00:34:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:11] Speaker A: I can't focus on without not being myself. [00:34:15] Speaker B: I. I could be helpful by not putting them in my notes, which I can't seem to help. Like, here's one. [00:34:18] Speaker A: You literally write curses when you write. [00:34:20] Speaker B: Notes, depending on what it is. Like this one. I had to write this down because if I'm. If I'm making up a fake quote, which is going to be right here. Now, this light thing is. This light thing comes up to them or something. I'm trying to. [00:34:32] Speaker A: Where we are here, the crystalline entity. [00:34:35] Speaker B: Yes, yes. Jordy comes in and Picard goes to him. Did you get a good look at it? Oh, I like, yeah, it's like, what's that? [00:34:43] Speaker A: I like that. God, I'm sorry. [00:34:45] Speaker B: He goes, yeah, it's like a snowflake crystal. I wanted Picard to go, yeah, no, can you see? What did you learn there? You know what I mean? [00:34:53] Speaker A: You know, that's true. But I like that aspect. They kind of stopped doing that after the first couple seasons. But I like that that Jordy's got that special visor. So go find a window and really look at it with your own quote unquote eyes and tell us, oh, got. [00:35:09] Speaker B: You, got you, got you. So I like that. [00:35:10] Speaker A: I kind of like that. So they. I think he said something like, Jordy, once you take a. A real look. [00:35:16] Speaker B: Right, right, right. [00:35:17] Speaker A: And you. And I like that it's the 24th century, but literally looking out a window gave him more information than the view screen and the analysis and stuff that was kind of cool. They kind of lost that. The visor comes into play in some plot points for sure, but I don't remember too many instances after this where they do that, but I thought that was cool. Oh, except for one big one, actually, where you get to see what Geordie sees. And in an episode you got coming up soon. I like that they kind of show you What. What he sees and how he interprets it. [00:35:46] Speaker B: Kind of cool, that is. That sounds cool. For a second, I thought, man, I missed it already. [00:35:50] Speaker A: I mean. [00:35:50] Speaker B: Oh, it happened already. All right, good, good. Now, what I'm trying to. Look is I. I don't have too much more going on here, but now I. I do have a few things here. But what about. Where are we in the episode here now? So we. Now Laura's already on the ship causing. Causing some havoc here, right? [00:36:07] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty much. Right. I don't remember the exact. Excuse me. Sequence of events, but at some point, Lore is starting to get found out. I like that moment on the bridge. This is sort of a really iconic scene when Riker kind of tricks him into revealing that he knows more than he does, which I always kind of thought that was cool. When Lore is pretending he doesn't understand how the helm works and all that. And Riker's like, so the square of the hypotenuse. And Laura quickly goes. Is equal to the sum of the square of the other two. Something. You know what I mean? And he realizes that he tricked him in a. And Data calls him out on that. He's like, you realize Commander Riker tricked you in a real revealing. You know, more than you did. So they were onto him pretty fast. But still, like, it's not something you throw somebody in the brig for. Right. So, right. Laura's doing his thing, but at some point, Laura tries to. I forget if he tried to convince Data to leave or whatever, or he just, like. I think he was just schmoozing with him to try to trick him, shut him off and switch places with him. Right. [00:37:16] Speaker B: I think so. I'm trying to remember. [00:37:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Because his plan was ultimately to contact that Crystalline Entity. [00:37:23] Speaker B: Right? [00:37:24] Speaker A: The Crystalline Entity was the thing that destroyed the planet and the colonists. [00:37:28] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes. [00:37:29] Speaker A: And Lore was in league with him because Lore is not an organic life form, and the Crystalline Entity doesn't need non organic life, from what I remember. So it just feeds on organic life. Grass, trees, humans, pets, you know, And Lore was going to feed the Enterprise to this thing and. Yeah. And. And I think Wesley kind of puts it together. Right? Convinces Beverly. [00:37:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I was gonna say, too. I love when they yell at Wesley and Riker just uses his finger at him like. Like a kid, you know, like, like, get moving, you know? [00:38:05] Speaker A: This is the second time that's happened already since you've been watching. You believe that? [00:38:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Remember. [00:38:09] Speaker A: Remember when. Where no one has gone before, where, you know, Kaczynski and The Traveler came on board, and they vaulted them through, like, two galaxies. Wesley kept trying to tell Riker blew him off. [00:38:20] Speaker B: Like, it's like, yeah, yeah. [00:38:22] Speaker A: At some point, you got to realize this kid's a genius. And just listen to him. Annoying as he is maybe, but, like, kid knows what he's talking about. [00:38:28] Speaker B: You know, if he had. I wonder if he had, like, a blue shirt on or a red shirt on, if they would maybe take him a little bit more seriously than, like, his pajamas. You know what I mean? Like, you know, that might help out a little bit. [00:38:37] Speaker A: That. That's. I mean, I know you're making it kind of a joke, but I think it's true. [00:38:40] Speaker B: No, I know, I know, I know. [00:38:41] Speaker A: I think it's like, in an actual uniform, you would be more inclined to naturally, you know, give him more weight. [00:38:48] Speaker B: But he is a, you know, child, basically. [00:38:50] Speaker A: What are we doing? He's a child. Yeah, but he is an acting incident now, too, though, so. But, yeah, so record blows him off. Right? So to the point where at that one scene where Wesley just flat out is like, you know, I'm not going anywhere with him. You know what I mean? He's pretty much saying he's an imposter. What the wrong with you people? Yeah. [00:39:08] Speaker B: And I was even saying, I think at one point, Picard tells Wesley to shut up, which I thought was kind of harsh. I was like, damn, Picard. [00:39:14] Speaker A: I know. And Beverly called him out on it, just like, shut up, Wesley. He's like, yeah, shut the up yourself, too, Doctor. Imagine. What about the bitch? [00:39:26] Speaker B: You know, now when. [00:39:27] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:39:27] Speaker B: I think this is when. When Lore. This might. I might be going back. I might be wrong about this. [00:39:32] Speaker A: That's all right, Skip Brown. [00:39:33] Speaker B: At some point, Lore kicks Data. I don't know if that was when he knocked him out to take over his role or if it was later on, but he kicks Data, and Data had, like, a robot wound. Is that something I saw, like, a. [00:39:43] Speaker A: Little flap was open on his head, right? Or something? [00:39:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Is that, like, something that is. I don't know. Does it happen a lot? Is that something? I don't know. [00:39:50] Speaker A: It's a good observation. No, I think it was just inclined. I think it was just there to show us how. Just how hard Lore hit this Android. Only somebody as strong as another Android could, like, make. [00:40:01] Speaker B: Gotcha. [00:40:01] Speaker A: You know, his Android. I don't know, Skull or whatever, like, open up, you know? [00:40:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm assuming that was one thing I would say, too, is that the fight scene Was kind of fun. I mean, Wharf got his ass kicked by Lord. That was pretty cool, you know? [00:40:15] Speaker A: Yeah. One of many times that our good pal Wharf is gonna get his ass kicked. Like I've mentioned before, he. He pretty much doesn't lose a fight on D space 9, but on next Gen, he gets his ass kicked all the time. It's funny, but, yeah, he's only Klingon. You know, androids are way stronger, so he didn't have a shot. [00:40:32] Speaker B: I don't know what point this was, but I was waiting for Wesley to go to Picard. Hey, Picard, why don't you shut the hell up? I'm captain now. [00:40:38] Speaker A: Why would he say that? [00:40:40] Speaker B: I have no idea. Because the way Picard yelled at him, I don't know. You know, shit out. Like, Wesley was the one that has really solved the whole. [00:40:47] Speaker A: He's the one that's right. He's like, yeah, you were dead wrong, Captain, so why don't you shut the fuck up? Smash. [00:40:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:40:53] Speaker A: Wesley and the brig, you know, but. [00:40:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought the whole ending scene was all cool. Very, very well done. I thought it was fun, you know. [00:40:58] Speaker A: You know, in the. In the cargo bay. Yeah, yeah, that was cool. You know, I mean, so, yeah, Crusher and Wesley and Beverly and Lore and Data. Right? Yeah, that was cool. I like that. That was. Yeah, I think. Was that the first time? No, it wasn't for the time. We seen a cargo bay. We saw a cargo bay a couple of times, but. Yeah, that's a nice set. Like, I like that. It's really spacious. And you can get some cool fight scenes in there. And. Yeah, that was cool. That was a good scene. And I like the little tag team between Wesley and Data when he fucking launches him. And just as, you know, Wesley beams him into space. I love it. [00:41:34] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:41:36] Speaker A: So cool. And of course, they're careful to not kill him. They just beam an Android into space. He's still alive. He's just stuck in space. [00:41:43] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:41:45] Speaker A: That's very cool. [00:41:46] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. It's like. Like Vader on a ship just being. Turning around like an idiot. Right, you know? Yeah, we know. We know he's coming back. [00:41:52] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So you'll see Laura again. You'll see the crystalline entity again. Actually, believe it or not, we learn more about that entity and, yeah, a lot of. A lot of firsts in this episode, so it's kind of cool. Yeah, so you said it was fun. I like that you liked it. Yeah, I think it made my top 10 in season one. But it wasn't like. Like, it's not a top. Like, it's not. It's not one of the best episodes, season one, but it's. It's. It's up there, you know, It's. [00:42:19] Speaker B: It's. Yeah. Yeah. [00:42:19] Speaker A: For season one. It's. It's certainly good. It's certainly a very good episode, but I really. It's most memorable for introducing Lore, giving us a little background on Data, and. And maybe even the. The Data off switch, which is, like I said, comes into play in a major episode in season two. [00:42:35] Speaker B: That was another thing I was asked was like, you know, it's almost like. Is that just like a science fiction thing where the robot can turn off or. You know, I guess it's one of those things like Android, you know. I don't know. You know? [00:42:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I suppose. I also. I like the fact that Data didn't want many people to know about it. You know what I mean? Like, I like that. [00:42:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:51] Speaker A: That, you know, even as an Android, he was like, you know what? Just the idea that somebody could just turn me off and then I just go into oblivion. Let's not. Let's not tell the world about that, you know? [00:43:01] Speaker B: That's Right. [00:43:01] Speaker A: Kind of shitty. Yeah. No, but, you know, as far as, like, science fiction goes, I'm sure robots have. You know, I'm sure that's been a plot device elsewhere, but I really can't think of anything off the top of my head. You know, robots with off switches or. [00:43:18] Speaker B: Well, I'm just thinking, like, of course I'm thinking 3 PO. Like, I'll shut down for a little while, but if I think it's. Turn his fucking head off and on, you know? [00:43:24] Speaker A: Right. He's conserving energy, I guess. I think that's the impression he got, right? Like. Or is he sleeping? Like, I don't know what, three PO's. [00:43:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I never really understood that, even as a kid. What are you shutting down? [00:43:34] Speaker A: I thought he was regenerating because the. The Borg do that as well. So I thought he was, like, regenerating. [00:43:39] Speaker B: Like the Borg getting more energy or whatever. [00:43:41] Speaker A: Yeah, Yeah, I guess so. Just refuel. Whereas Data is sort of designed to. He doesn't sleep. He's just. He's designed to just go forever. [00:43:48] Speaker B: That'd be awesome, wouldn't that? [00:43:50] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, for sure. Like, I can't, you know? I mean, the older I get, the more I look forward to going to bed and sleeping, you know? I mean, like, I look forward to kind of winding down and Then falling asleep. But, yeah, no, given the choice, you know, eight extra hours a day to. I mean, I probably spend it just watching next gen refunds, but, you know. [00:44:08] Speaker B: I mean, like, that would be a great time to do all that. [00:44:12] Speaker A: There's a great episode of American dad called Stand Time where he takes this pill that makes you be awake all the time. So, like, he just starts. He's learning guitar and he's becoming a, you know, artist, and he's playing this one video game. It's just. They took it to like, like an extreme, you know, but. But that's what some people might do with that time. They would learn to speak Swahili and they would, you know, become an archaeologist. You know, I would just probably, you know, just watch TV more, read another book, you know. [00:44:39] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, but for some reason in my mind, if everybody in the world was awake all that time, you know, we'd have to, you know, everything would probably cost way more. They would. You'd have to work way more. I don't know. I just. You know what I mean? I feel like it would be. It wouldn't be like you'd have eight free hours. Do what you want. Somehow we would get bent over with that. I feel like. I don't know. [00:44:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it's probably true. I mean, we'd have a lot more room with no mattress stores and like that. Like, the whole, like, sleep industry would be. But there'd be no dreams. Wouldn't that be weird? Like, you know, worried about interpreting dreams and. I don't know. That's interesting. Yeah. A society that doesn't. [00:45:12] Speaker B: There would be no dreams. All our dreams are crushed. [00:45:16] Speaker A: What word would. What, what, what stupid platitude would we tell people to, like, follow your dreams? It'd be like, you know, follow your life path. It'd be so fucking stupid. So, Data Lord. [00:45:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:27] Speaker A: I'm trying to think if we. If we missed any. Any big points. You know, Lore's. There's a douchebag. Chris Line entity is not really a douchebag, by the way. Like, you'll learn a little more about the. It's really just an entity that eats. Picard likens it. And again, you won't remember this, you know, two, three seasons from now, but Picard likens it to a cuttlefish. I mean, a whale that just eats all the cuttlefish. Like, it's not. It's not evil. It's just trying to eat, you know, so the crystalline entity kind of does that. We will bring this entity up again. In the season finale of this season, not because it's in it, but because there's a little confusion as to the plot of the final episode. Yeah. I won't confuse anybody with that. But we'll talk about that again because it's, it's an interesting conversation, I think. Yeah. But I think, I think we covered all the bases. That's all your notes, right? [00:46:23] Speaker B: You. What's that? [00:46:24] Speaker A: That's all your notes? [00:46:25] Speaker B: Yeah, No, I went through them all. I thought, you know, it seemed like I went through them pretty quick. But it's funny, I'm realizing now because, again, I watched it so a while ago where I wasn't remembering everything in order. I usually try to. I take them in order as I'm watching the show, but I, but, yeah, I was just trying to think about, you know, again, there's always been something interesting. I love, I've always loved this idea, though. You know, obviously, with the. A character is, you know, swapped out with a, With a twin that's not him, and everybody has to figure that shit out, you know, like, that's always. I've always liked that idea. You know, it's a fun. Because you're curious how they're gonna figure it out or what's gonna. [00:46:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:59] Speaker B: You know, a good episode for that. That character, though, like, you know, I think so. You know, I don't know, you get more into his or hers world or perspective or heart and, you know, and you see the. How much the other characters relate to him. And I don't know, it's like, it's fun. I, I, I. It brings you closer to the show. I feel like, in some weird way, if that makes any sense. I don't know, you know. No, you feel like it's your friend that get that. Wait, that's not data, you idiots. You know, you want to jump in the screen, put on a shirt and blast this, you know? [00:47:34] Speaker A: Well, that's so true. Right, because you're doing that because, one, you're invested in the show or in the episode or whatever. And two, you are falling more in line with the characters. Right. So that's a good point. Because, you know, when you first watch this, you don't give a, like, you're like, you know, all right, I guess this guy's an asshole. You don't even know if he's a nice guy or not. You know, when you first meet these characters, you don't know what they are yet. But now that you've watched, you know, a good chunk of episodes, now you're kind of, you know, like I said, you're aligning with some of the characters and you're, you know, in your head, you're like, who's gonna figure this out? It's gonna be, you know, Picard are gonna figure it out because he's really smart. It's gonna be fucking, you know, Wesley. Because they always throw him, you know, the solution and shit. Who's gonna figure it out? You know? So we haven't touched base in a while as far as, like, what characters you're sort of gravitating towards. We haven't talked about that in a little bit. I. I know. You know, you kind of liked. You were kind of focusing on, like, Data and Picard and Counselor Troy. Are those still the three that you kind of. You kind of watch when. Oh, by the way, was Council Troy in this episode? [00:48:34] Speaker B: You know, it's funny, I don't remember making any notes on it. I feel like she was, though, but I can't remember. Just because I didn't take any notes on it doesn't mean she wasn't. I feel like there were. There was moments where they were trying to, you know, figure out things. I could feel like I could picture on the bridge for some reason, but I could be completely wrong about that. Maybe she wasn't. I'm not 100% on it. [00:48:56] Speaker A: You think I would know off the bat, but now that I'm thinking we didn't mention. I think we mentioned every other character except for her. [00:49:02] Speaker B: Yeah, but that might just been my notes. That doesn't mean. [00:49:04] Speaker A: Maybe that's true, but also me, when I'm thinking I'm not picturing her in this episode, but we'll check that out. But, yeah. So are you still gravitating towards those same characters? Are you? I know you're still looking for background on other characters, but where are you at with the characters? [00:49:20] Speaker B: Hate him. [00:49:22] Speaker A: Garbage. Next question. [00:49:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Is there another show? No, they. I mean, you know, they are this. You know, But I. I don't know again, I still haven't really had a lot of time with a lot of these guys yet. Still. I guess. I don't know. Well, you know, it's funny, like I said, Picard has become like, what I. So far, I'm like, why is this guy, like, this great character? You know? I mean, I haven't really seen a lot of that yet. [00:49:45] Speaker A: Not yet now. Yeah. You believe me, you fucking will. There's no question. I'm more certain about that than anything else. I've ever told you. [00:49:52] Speaker B: I know, of course, there's no question about it. [00:49:55] Speaker A: You're gonna be in awe of the character and the actor by the end of the series for sure. But, but you know, we've talked about this a little bit before too, but, but I imagine it must have been really difficult. There's a multi layer intention here behind the creators, right. Like they want to make it Star Trek, they want to make it similar enough to the original series where you're keeping those old viewers, but you also want to make your own mark. You also want to make it stand apart. And the rush to make it similar to the original series, meaning a new planet each week, a new species each week, that kind of thing. The species of the week sort of model doesn't always lend itself to character development. I found that the original series, you know, they very rarely developed the characters other than Bones, Spocker, Kirk, you know what I mean? [00:50:52] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:50:53] Speaker A: Because, well, honestly, because they were the only three build main characters, believe it or not. So like Uhura, Chekhov, Sulu, Scotty. And you know, they weren't, they weren't on screen title characters, so they did not. Right. There was no, you know, they weren't, there weren't Aurora episodes, there weren't Sulu episodes, you know, but in this series, there's Troy episodes, there's Wharf episodes, there's Jordy episodes. So finding footing in how to write that, write those characters early on must have been difficult. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense, but. [00:51:27] Speaker B: No, 100% you are. Yeah, because I, I, it's funny because I was even trying to think about that just from even the Star wars things like, you know, like everything about Episode seven, eight, nine, where it's like you're trying to hold, obviously trying to continue off Episode six. Are you trying to include some people from Episode six? But then you want to incorporate these new characters and then you try to please the old generation, bring in the old, the new generation. So I, and that's, those are movies, obviously, you know, so, and then for show, it's all, it's all of the ball game. So. But yeah, I mean, I agree, very, very difficult to do. And again, I think that just like you said, almost like we were when Star wars was coming back out in a movie theater in 99 there, you know, we were like, holy cow, there's gonna be more of this. Like we were all on board for that, you know. [00:52:12] Speaker A: Sure. [00:52:12] Speaker B: And it's the same thing here where I'm wondering now if it was like that or, you know, I wonder if the old, original fans of the old, you know, the original series were as amped up about Next Generation come out as, like, we were about Phantom Menace coming out, you know, like, what interesting. Were they amped up? Were they kind of like, I don't know, there's no Kirk, there's no Spock. What are we doing here? [00:52:36] Speaker A: You know, my father definitely was like, he was very excited. And my father doesn't get excited about anything as far as movies or tv. But I know when that came out, he was watching it faithfully. He was looking forward to it as much as somebody like him does look forward to stuff. So I know he was excited for it. I wouldn't say he was your stereotypical Star Trek fan. Like, he wasn't. He's not a rabid fan. Like, you know, he didn't. He was a big fan. He went to, he went to convention with me and everything, and he watched all the episodes, but he didn't, he didn't have much desire to talk about it, like we're doing. You know what I mean? Like, he, he would have, you know, he would have been on the pod. He would have just been like, yeah, it was a good episode. But that being said, so he was definitely into it. So I imagine it was similar where they were, you know, cautious, cautiously optimistic. Probably is what a lot of fans were when it came out. That's my impression. But again, it was. I was in seventh grade, so, you know, I don't, I didn't have a. Have a. I didn't have the pulse of what was happening with that at the time. [00:53:34] Speaker B: But, But I think that that is a good way to look at the show now. Like, like I said, like, in watching this, like you were talking about, we always, you always. Not really knock on it, but you always say, like, just compared to the other seasons, that season one's kind of. Kind of rough. But it's like, you know, it's understandable. Like you said, they're still trying to figure out how to, how to get everything, because I feel like you, you, you. If it could get on his feet and, you know, get picked up for another season or another, see, then you can really get into the shit, you know what I mean? But no, it's very, very hard to do very. And again, also, there's a lot of characters. I mean, you know, there's a lot of characters to fit into the whole. [00:54:08] Speaker A: Thing, and they keep that model. It's very strange, like, all through the 90s tracks, including up to and including Enterprise. They keep that model of having so many characters. It's a lot to juggle. Voyager had eight, I want to say, like at one point, I mean, it's a lot to juggle. It's a lot to keep. It's a lot of characters to have to worry about giving time to, attention to and details to. It's funny, I'm thinking about now like, so Deep Space Nine, you know, apart from, you know, being a more action oriented show towards the end of it, was way more character driven probably than any of the other Trek shows. And that may be a result of this show being more like the original series, you know, so they kind of pivoted with D space 9, kept it a stationary station and you know, focus more on character and politics and plot. And then Voyager was a sort of an answer to that, went back to what Next gen was more of a, you know, story of the week kind of thing, not so much serialized storytelling. So I guess it depends on the producers, the creators, the showrunners, you know, sort of what they're feeling at the time, where, where TV's going at the time. You know, there's so many factors that much go must go into how you develop and write a series, especially over the course of seven years as those three shows did go. Seven years. So, yeah, it's an interesting conversation. Like, you know, and, and I shit on the first season a lot. A lot of fans do. It's not just me, but I try to give credit where credit's due, especially so early on and given that it's, you know, it was sort of lost in this soup of 80s television. Not lost, but, you know, I mean, it's, it's mired in this, you know, the tropes of 80s television. I try to give it as much credit as I can when I see something that was, you know, a little ahead of its time or just well done. [00:55:55] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that, you know, even though we're saying that, you know, they're not really getting too into the character development, there's been some episodes here where you've gotten at least some little story of like, you know, like now we've had data, you know, Troy had the episode already with her mom, you know, and, and we saw Picard's old ship in one of the episodes already. Right. There's some, there's some cool elements there here. Like I said, haven't gotten a lot of Jordy, haven't gotten a lot of wharf, haven't gotten A lot of crush, you know, too much Tasha, I guess. I don't know. But, you know. Yeah, well, it's a little bit of Riker, I guess, but it's so true. [00:56:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And, and, you know, of course, I could think of. In the first two seasons, they all have episodes at some point, but. Yeah, yeah, now they're. They, they're. They're. Again, they're trying to find that balance, Right? They're trying to find the balance between good storytelling, which characters sort of fans are gravitating towards. I know Data was a hit right off the bat. So, like, I know, you know, that they, they were going to concentrate on him a little bit, you know, more than others. And Riker was the ladies man, so, you know, like, he's getting more air time, but again, then again, it's Patrick Stewart, Jonathan Frakes, and then everybody else in alphabetical order. So technically they were the two stars, Riker and Picard, and then everybody else just kind of comes after. So. Yeah, so. But, but, you know, you'll get there. I can't wait to talk to the Bomber who's starting season three. Like, I'm, I'm really looking forward to, you know, not discussing different content or anything, but I'm looking forward to discussing it on a different level where there's no need for the preamble of saying, well, it's kind of shitty, but you know what I mean? Like, yeah, we just start talking about the ideas behind the episode and blah, blah, blah, but for now, there's nothing else we could do. You got to talk about some of the silliness. [00:57:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you know, that's, that's, that's thinking that season three, I'm going to be all in. I might take season three and throw it out the window, and we got to see, you know, quit, man, before. [00:57:47] Speaker A: I mean, who knows, right? This is. There's no gun to his head, folks. Like, if Bomber ever gets to the point where it's like, look, this is just a slog, I kind of, you know, I'm forcing myself to watch this, that there's no way to live. Like, you know, you don't want to do that. It's just a waste of time at that point, and that's okay. [00:58:04] Speaker B: Well, when they. When I visited that planet where everyone's just making out, after that, I got to give us a little bit of time, you know. [00:58:11] Speaker A: Right, right, right, right. That was a good episode. [00:58:14] Speaker B: And now how many seasons did Drew get in before he was, like, d. Tapped out? [00:58:17] Speaker A: He was in the middle of season five when he tapped out. [00:58:20] Speaker B: Wow, that's pretty far. Wow, it is pretty far. Yeah. [00:58:22] Speaker A: I'm shocked that he didn't just. I mean, to the point where now he's like, shit, I might as well just finish it. You know, he's more of a completist these days. So now he's. Maybe I'll get back into it and finish it. I'm like, all right, you know, we'll have him on if that's the case. And, you know. Yeah, ask him why he stopped, what he thinks of it now. That'll be fun to kind of talk to him about. [00:58:39] Speaker B: Maybe when. When I get up to that season, we'll watch him and we'll, you know, be able to both chime in on the episode. [00:58:45] Speaker A: I told him, I said, start listening to Bomber's Trek and just rewatch him. You know what I mean? Like. Like watch him along, you know, along with everybody else. You know, watch the episode and then listen to the track. That'd be. That'll be interesting, you know, I mean, it would only be one a month. It's not like it's that much of a commitment, you know? [00:59:00] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:59:01] Speaker A: Anyway, so, yeah, so we got a. We got a little rating coming. So what. What did you rate this episode, Bomber, please. [00:59:09] Speaker B: I have on here 1.3. Is that. [00:59:14] Speaker A: Imagine nothing has ever been a 1.3. [00:59:18] Speaker B: I gotta find. Hold on. So let me find my rate. [00:59:20] Speaker A: I'm a little surprised at the IMDb rating. I would have. I mean, again, it's first season and I know. So it's technically high. It's a high score for a first season episode, but it's still a little lower than I thought it might be given. [00:59:34] Speaker B: All right, so I gave this a 7.3 on mine. [00:59:37] Speaker A: 7.3. Okay, interesting. IMDb gave it a 7.6. So the fans think it's a little better than you do. I'm actually looking. So far it is the highest rated episode. Okay. There's one episode that's higher rated. That's it on IMDb. [00:59:53] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:59:54] Speaker A: And yeah, the highest we go is an 8.0 on first season. So I mean, that. That tells you, right? [01:00:00] Speaker B: But yeah, we come across that we haven't seen that episode. [01:00:04] Speaker A: No, no, you're gonna like that one. That's a very good one. It gets crazy silly at the end, but, like, only because the special effects weren't where they should be yet. [01:00:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:00:14] Speaker A: That episode, folks, is conspiracy. When we get to that, that's an 8.0 on IMDb so I think you all know what episode that is, but, yeah, that's the penultimate episode to the. To the first season. So there's that, and then there's the Neutral Zone, the final episode, and then you're off and running, so. 7.3. All right, I'll take it now. You know what? Let me look, because I want to see if that is where that fits with the rest of your. [01:00:37] Speaker B: Well, while you're doing that, as you say, the Neutral Zone. That's not a football episode, I'm guessing. [01:00:43] Speaker A: Of course you think it was. No, it's not. It's not a football episode. That is the. Like a war. Neutral Zone, of course. [01:00:50] Speaker B: Huh? [01:00:51] Speaker A: Here we go. All right, so you said a 7.3. All right. [01:00:56] Speaker B: Yes. [01:00:56] Speaker A: All right, so for you, this is tied for the highest. So the last two episodes have been your favorite so far. They've both been 7.3s. You gave them the big goodbye 7.3 as well. [01:01:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I probably could have put this one up, you know, even a little bit higher, but. [01:01:10] Speaker A: No, it is what it is. And I kind of like. Do you look at your. Keep a track of your own ratings, right? [01:01:17] Speaker B: No, no, I. I put it on my end of my notes, and then I, you know, delete the note and go on to the next episode. [01:01:23] Speaker A: Oh, good. Okay. Because. Because, you know, I want. I do. It's funny, I do the opposite, like, because I'm rating all the original series episodes, getting that list ready, and. And every once in a while, if I'm, you know, 7.2 somewhat 3 or 7.4, I'll look at the other episodes that I've rated and be like, is it better than that? It's better than that. Okay. And then I'll kind of know where to pinpoint it. You know, I always know whether it's a 7 and 8 or a 9. [01:01:46] Speaker B: But I wonder if I should. I mean, I can always listen back to these. I guess I wonder if I should keep a track of it. [01:01:51] Speaker A: The reason I'm bringing. Because I'm glad you're doing it that way because it's different than what I'm doing. So we kind of get two different perspectives. So you're coming at it fresh every time without being affected by what you've already rated, whereas I'm kind of, like, looking at all the numbers and trying to. So I like that. I like that you're taking a different approach than I am. That way we get kind of a fresh. An even fresher perspective on Bomber's Trek here. And the next episode is a doozy, folks. I don't think it's gonna be a 7.3, but, hey, what do I know, folks? The next episode he's watching is angel one. Just a. Dude, get your pen ready because you're gonna be taking notes. [01:02:29] Speaker B: Really? [01:02:29] Speaker A: Ass. There's a lot. [01:02:31] Speaker B: This is like, a rac. Or is it, like. [01:02:33] Speaker A: It's pretty Looney Tunes. Not in, like, dog and cat species sort of way, but in, like, dude, what the were they thinking kind of way. You know what I mean? [01:02:41] Speaker B: This really. [01:02:42] Speaker A: This might be the last, like, embarrassing episode. You know what I mean? [01:02:46] Speaker B: Like, wow, I can't wait for this now. Yeah. [01:02:48] Speaker A: Yeah. This is the last horrible episode of season one, in my opinion. I'll revisit that and see if I'm right. But this is. This is not good. But again, I don't want to. If you like it, I would love to hear why. If you hate it, we'll agree, you know, so. So we'll see. So that's angel one. [01:03:05] Speaker B: Wow. All right, I'm curious. [01:03:07] Speaker A: What else you got? Anything else? [01:03:10] Speaker B: That's it. You know, Data. Data Lore was not a bore, I'll tell you that. I. I enjoyed it. I got nothing else. What can I say? You know, this will be under. [01:03:20] Speaker A: I think once we edit, this will be under an hour, I think. So. That's good. [01:03:23] Speaker B: We find we usually would talk for, like, an hour and a half. We're on some tangents here, but I know. [01:03:27] Speaker A: I know that's good. Editing is interesting because it's like, you know, if it feels right, I'll leave it in. Even if it's a long tangent, if it isn't, as I. Sometimes I cut complete tangents out just because it doesn't feel like, you know, organic, but. [01:03:38] Speaker B: Right, right, right. [01:03:40] Speaker A: All right. Data Lore in the books, folks. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Warp Top 10 podcast and Bomber's Trek edition. We'll look. We're coming at you soon with either Angel 1 or another top 10. And be on the lookout for Men of a Certain five. We are releasing more episodes of that podcast as well. I want to thank Luke Boyle for producing this bad boy and publishing this and doing all the stuff he does behind the scenes. Really appreciate it, and I want to thank you guys again, if you're. If you stuck with us this far through all our fucking ridiculous bullshit conversations and tangents. We really appreciate it. Thanks for listening so much. And, Bomber, take us home. [01:04:20] Speaker B: Well, you know, I just want to let the folks know that if you guys ever come across a allure of Bomber, you know, if there's, like, another me out there, like, claiming to be me, like, or, like, trying to take my place, you know, like, maybe he's got a. A different name, you know, he's brilliant, this guy, you know? Brilliant is the name, you know? [01:04:39] Speaker A: How would you know it's not? [01:04:40] Speaker B: You'll know it's not me. [01:04:41] Speaker A: How will we know? Because. [01:04:46] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:04:46] Speaker A: I thought so. Yes, exactly. [01:04:48] Speaker B: Yes, But. But if you really also need a little clue, you just got to ask him, do you like Star Trek? He says, yes. No, it's not Bomber. All right. That's how we do. All right, see you later.