Bomber's Trek: TNG 1x04

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Discovery going throttle up. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Hello and welcome back to the Star Trek Warped Top 10 Podcast. What is going on, everyone out there? What is up, you lovely, lovely Trekkies and Trekkers? So good to have you guys with us. Thank you so much for listening. I'm your co host, Phil Rizzo, and I'm joined by Brian Bomber Parks. What is up, bitch? [00:00:45] Speaker B: Good afternoon, everybody. Are we pumped up for Star Trek today? Yes, I am. Let's fucking go, baby. Woo. Are we done, Parks? [00:00:56] Speaker A: Sorry, I had to do the. I had to do my Francesca tear. [00:01:00] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:01:01] Speaker A: Dear. Fucking no. [00:01:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm excited to get back in and Next Generation episode that I could give a rat's ass about. So let's. Let's get involved. [00:01:10] Speaker A: All right. I'm scared to hear your rating now. Yeah, folks, listen, we're back. We're back with another supplemental pod. We're back with Bomber's Journey. Bomber's trek through the world of Star Trek, starting with Next Generation. Some of you may question why we started with Next Generation. I am not sure if we talked about that yet. [00:01:26] Speaker B: We haven't. I guess for me, it was the idea of this was the show. You're the person I knew that was a Star Trek fan, Die Hard. And this was your show growing up. So I figured this was the one I wanted to get involved in. [00:01:36] Speaker A: Yeah, mine. Luke's right. We both bonded over the show. We talked so highly of it. Troy's a big fan of Next Gen, obviously, so, like. Yeah, so everyone, you know, is kind of. This is the show. So. Yeah. So, yeah, folks, that's kind of why we did it. You know, I had a buddy at work. I think I talked about this Ryan, who, you know, when I first started telling him about the pod we did, he was excited to check out Star Trek and he wanted to go chronological. So he started with Enterprise. And I was. I wish he had asked me about it first. I wouldn't have told him to start with Enterprise. [00:02:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:03] Speaker A: But he did, and it is what it is. And I think he kind of got turned off by it. Not because it was bad. It just wasn't necessarily what he was immediately wanting to grab onto. So it is what it is. So, yeah. So I think Start with Next Gen is a good idea. It's funny. So last night we actually. We hung out here and we had our good buddy Luke over. We had a little Trek party and my brother came over too. He didn't stick around for the Trek festivities, but we Watched. We watched Section 31 for the first time and we actually showed Bomber a lower decks episode. [00:02:30] Speaker B: That's right. Yes. Yes. [00:02:32] Speaker A: So first of all, Bomber, let's hear your impressions of section 31. What do you think? [00:02:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you know, I know it was funny because right before it almost reminded me of when we did Code of Honor on the part here, the supplemental pot, you know, because right before we kicked it off, Luke was. We was watching with Luke and I was cool hanging out with him, but he happened to be glancing at some shit. I think he mentioned something about right before we're about to hit play on it, that. That he's noticing some of the reviews being bad about section 31. [00:03:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:00] Speaker B: And I remember you saying, you know what? I read that too, but I want to, you know, fuck that, and let's give it a fresh look. And I think, you know, so going by what people in the reviews would probably say, I can understand people being like, you know, I don't think it was really the best thing, but I don't think it was bad. I thought it's kind of like Code of Honor to me. I thought it was entertaining. I thought it was. Had its good points at bad points or the acting was good. The storyline was kind of decent. And I think some of the action scenes were a little weird, wonky, but, you know, and even some of the. Some of the characters were a little weird too. And, you know, but overall it was fine, you know. I don't know. [00:03:32] Speaker A: I'm glad to hear it. [00:03:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:33] Speaker A: I think you liked it a little more than I did. I was definitely disappointed by it. But, like, like you said, there were certain aspects of it that were really good. I'd say it's worth watching, but not much more than that. Yeah, we talked about this, you know, last night when it was finished, but we, you know, I like. I like the characters. I thought that all the actors seemed like they were having fun. I love Michelle Yeoh just so much. She's such a gamer. And I loved. It seemed like she was having fun with this role. And that's infectious when you watch these. These actors do that. So I'm not gonna say I think the actors did a good job. I think they certainly spent money on it. It looked good. [00:04:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:04] Speaker A: Editing aside, you know, and the way it was kind of shot, but just as far as, like, the production design, I thought looked phenomenal and it moved at a pretty good pace. It was a pretty good clip. We paused it for a second. Somebody had to piss, and it was. [00:04:17] Speaker B: Halfway through, like, wow. [00:04:19] Speaker A: Oh, shit. [00:04:20] Speaker B: All right. [00:04:20] Speaker A: And, yeah, I'd heard the same things on TikTok before I. We dove in and folks, we watched it last night, was the 24th as of this recording, and we. We watched it on the premiere night, but of course, they were already million reviews out there on TikTok, and I saw some things that was like, star Trek hits a new low point. Come on. [00:04:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:04:38] Speaker A: It was nowhere near that bad. Like I said. I think you should check it out. As a Trek fan, I know there's not a lot of love in certain circles for Discovery, and this was a direct spin off of Discovery series. [00:04:50] Speaker B: Oh, is it really? [00:04:51] Speaker A: So I thought that might have fed into the negative reviews a little bit, and I think they did. But that's not saying that some of the reviews weren't founded. I think it was definitely a mediocre entry, which is a shame, because I would like to have seen more independent movies come to Paramount. Plus, maybe they will. Maybe they'll take another shot. And I'd like to see more Michelle Yeoh in Trek, by all means. [00:05:11] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. [00:05:12] Speaker A: And I know she loves Star Trek and she loves the role, so that's, you know, good on her. Academy Award winner, Michelle Yeoh, Star Trek movie. I loved it. [00:05:19] Speaker B: And wasn't there another Academy Award winner in there? No. Spoiler alert. I don't want to throw that at the end there, but there was a little cameo at the end there, as far as I thought. [00:05:26] Speaker A: Oh, that was interesting. Yeah. That would have been a lot better if the movie was better. [00:05:30] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:05:31] Speaker A: No spoilers. Which I was. [00:05:33] Speaker B: Which I do feel like they were aiming for, you know, like, I think. [00:05:36] Speaker A: They expected to be. I think they thought it'd be a hit. And why wouldn't you think that? And I think that they thought they might have had either a series or another sequel movie that they could build. [00:05:45] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll see what happens. [00:05:47] Speaker A: And they maybe still will. And of course, I'll check it out. You know, I'll give it a shot. You know, I've never watched anything in Star Trek that made me turn it off. You know, they made me just say, all right, I'm done with this. [00:05:56] Speaker B: Which is the opposite of me, where that's everything I've watched in Star Trek. [00:06:00] Speaker A: Well, Luke and I talked about you. There were some aspects of season three of Discovery that I was like, all right, this is the lowest point of the series. [00:06:07] Speaker B: No good. Yeah. [00:06:08] Speaker A: But, you know, there's still 80% to love, even the 20% to hate. So. And I could be just a blind Trek fan. But it is what it is. Yes, we checked out section 31, so there's that. You know, we'll leave no spoilers. But then we showed Bomber an episode of Lower Decks. So we didn't talk about it at all. [00:06:22] Speaker B: No, we didn't. [00:06:22] Speaker A: And so right now. So this is interesting. So what we watched the pilot episode, folks. We were in a Trek mood. We were trying to think about should we watch. I know some fans I saw immediately went and watched a certain episode of Next Gen because it directly tied into the movie. [00:06:35] Speaker B: Oh, really? [00:06:36] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't want to say right now because it's semi spoiler and it just came out yesterday. So enjoy that because that's a really cool aspect of the section 31. But yeah, so we went in fresh lower decks. What do you think? Pilot episode? [00:06:47] Speaker B: No, but it was great. You know, it's funny like you said, like I could, you know, anything with a cartoon I could definitely watch. I'm like, you know, like that. But you know, everything here and you and Lou talk about the concept I already love. So now I was just interested in getting into it and it's like, you know, it's just funny how this. Certain styles just, you know, there's nothing you could do to get away from it a little bit. So I kept saying that. It did remind me of like a Rick and Morty cartoon. You said it was the same guys that's involved, right? [00:07:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Mike McMahon is one of the creators of. He was one of the creative people behind Rick and Morty. Again, I've said this before. I'm pretty sure he wrote Pickle Rick and won an Emmy for it or at least got nominated for an Emmy for it or co wrote it or you know, he had something to do with Pickle Rick, that amazing episode. And Rick and Morty, I love that show so much. And this is certainly the animation, the pace, the sort of wit is certainly inspired by Rick and we were joking last night. It's pretty much Rick and Morty without the nihilism. It's pretty much what it is, which is great. And it's just against the backdrop of a specific area of science fiction instead of Rick and Morty, which is open to the entire gamut of science fiction fodder. [00:07:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:48] Speaker A: Such an entertaining show. But yeah. So back to Lower Decks. [00:07:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it was funny that, you know, and I mean the characters were good there, you know, the. They all, you know, again, it's the first episode. I don't really know. I know there's a lot of things on there I'm not knowing. I could tell when they were doing some Star Trek things that I'm not gonna make a reference to but. Or know of just yet. But like the one, there was one part where the girls like listing off all these things, like experience, whatever. Yeah, that's over my head. But I knew it was for you guys. [00:08:15] Speaker A: I'm watching it with someone who doesn't know the references or at least not all of them. So I'm really taking it in. Last night. So the very opening scene, this isn't the lower decks pod, but just for a couple seconds. The opening scene where she's trying to swing the bat leth at him. Now I know you don't remember what a bat leth is, but I'm sure you know it's a Klingon device, right? [00:08:33] Speaker B: It's funny, I just remember. I know I've probably seen it in some of the movies and stuff, but I just remember someone walking around with that at the convention boards that. And you're like, batleth. [00:08:41] Speaker A: Batleth, that's right. You made me say the word like seven or eight times. [00:08:44] Speaker B: I was like, what the fuck is that? [00:08:45] Speaker A: So you know, so something like that you have a vague knowledge of. Yeah, yeah, you know, and like at one point Mariner calls Boimler, she refers to herself as his chadich, which obviously you wouldn't get yet. But like, that's one that's not even a deep cut. But it's a middle of the road cut. But really my point is at the end when she starts rattling off, oh my God, have you ever heard of Kirk Spock? You know, so obviously you know who they are, right? She threw Gary Mitchell in there. Who I know you don't know. He, he was a character from the original series. Original series episode. But then he gave you a little Deanna Troy at the end there. So I kind of like that for you. So you knew Troy, you knew Spock, so you're kind of involved a little bit. Even with a little bit of Trek you've watched, they're already throwing stuff that even you know about. So I kind of like that. And the show does that. It pays an amazing homage to what's come before while still being so original. So. Yeah, I like that you dug it. [00:09:35] Speaker B: And the part with the pig people. Yeah, they have that spider thing, whatever it is. [00:09:40] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:09:41] Speaker B: And it's eating the guy and it's sucking him up. That whole sequence was hilarious. [00:09:44] Speaker A: Hilarious. [00:09:44] Speaker B: That Was great. [00:09:45] Speaker A: I mean, because they're not afraid to be slapsticky. And I know you're a big fan of. We're both big fans of slapsticky. [00:09:49] Speaker B: Yes. [00:09:50] Speaker A: Again, folks, Looney Tunes, freaking Naked Gun. Right? You're gonna hear some slapsticky laughter from us. [00:09:54] Speaker B: Yes, yes. [00:09:55] Speaker A: And yeah, the shows and the pacing is. And the really what it is, is what sells it for me is the enthusiasm of the voice actors. You know, they're so earnest, they're so quick, they're so, you know, quick witted. The delivery is perfect. You know, so all of Jack, Eugene Cordero, all of them, all the voice actors, they deliver it with such verve and excitement. [00:10:14] Speaker B: Energy. [00:10:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So you can't help but get sort of caught up in it. I kind of like that a lot. [00:10:18] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. [00:10:19] Speaker A: Yeah. So, you know, like. So that's so folks, there's no, there's no barriers to Bomber's Trek watch. If he's sitting around and you know, a week from now and he's like, let me watch another cartoon episode, feel free to do that. You know, I mean, we won't be doing a supplemental pot for lower decks. [00:10:34] Speaker B: At least not for years, but kind of like the top 10 list. I'll throw it on there and hey, I'll watch this like that. Like we did do a pot for the Animated Series, which was phenomenal. [00:10:42] Speaker A: I loved it. [00:10:43] Speaker B: But I feel like whenever I do get through all our decks, I can even throw in my own top 10 or whatever. You know what I mean? [00:10:49] Speaker A: That's so great. I love it. I love it. Yeah. So, yeah, so he checked out some lower decks. But folks, today we're talking about next generation kids. [00:10:56] Speaker B: Well, before, before you do. [00:10:57] Speaker A: Before we do. [00:10:57] Speaker B: Two things I wanted to mention before we do that. One is I forgot to mention that I. I was telling Luke the other day that yesterday watching it that I. My favorite. We talked talking about old TV shows and shit like that, whatever, you know. And I was talking about somehow he was talking about the Adam West Batman show. I think we were talking about who the hottest Catwoman was. Something like that. But I remember saying my favorite villain in Batman has always been the Riddler because of Frank Gorshin. [00:11:20] Speaker A: Right. [00:11:21] Speaker B: And I think we talked about this on the. One of the pods and you mentioned that he had a great episode in the original series. Yeah. And then we're watching section 31 and then someone of his race was in the show. [00:11:31] Speaker A: That was pretty cool. [00:11:33] Speaker B: You said he'd never seen it. Since that episode the more. Yeah, I haven't right. [00:11:36] Speaker A: You know, somebody might have caught it in the background or something. I've never seen that same race that Frank Gorshin played. [00:11:40] Speaker B: I thought it was pretty cool. [00:11:41] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty cool. [00:11:42] Speaker B: And then the other thing I was here was I did watch. I don't know why. I was in a bad mood. I wanted to get some shit out of me. So I was like, you know what? For some reason I started watching. This is a couple weeks ago, I started watching the Death Wish movies. [00:11:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:52] Speaker B: For some reason. And I had seen the first Death Wish, you know, a while ago. I was like, let me revisit it. Let me check it out. Jeff Goldblum plays one of the, you know, villains in there. The rape. Rape people there, whatever rapists in that movie. [00:12:04] Speaker A: And. [00:12:04] Speaker B: And it's just like his family is brutally murdered or whatever. [00:12:06] Speaker A: Anyway, it's a really dark movie in the beginning. [00:12:08] Speaker B: So then they have the second one. I'm like, let me check out the second one. You know, So I watched that. You know, they were all. They're on to be or whatever it was, Right. And I was like, all right, let me. Let me check out the third one. And who is in the third movie? The cast in the third movie is insane, by the way. This is like an 80s Bill and Ted. Not Keanu Reeves. The other guy, he's in the movie. [00:12:25] Speaker A: Alex Winter. [00:12:25] Speaker B: Martin Balsam's in the movie. [00:12:27] Speaker A: Nice. [00:12:28] Speaker B: And the guy that's in Superman 3, that's kind of like the douchey boyfriend there that he's. Yes, he's in. [00:12:36] Speaker A: Yeah, the guy who was drunk and he turned the switch with Richard Pryor. Right? [00:12:39] Speaker B: Yes, yes. [00:12:39] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. He's a. He's a big 80s douchebag. [00:12:42] Speaker B: And this is the reason why I'm bringing the whole movie up on the pod here, is that Troy was in it, wasn't it? And she gets brutally attacked. She does show her body off in the movie, you know, but. But it's a. You know, obviously in an uncomfortable way, but it was interesting to see her. I. I never saw her anything outside of Star Trek. Then again, I've only seen her a few Star Trek episodes so far, but. [00:13:06] Speaker A: Do you remember she. Was she using her regular British accent or was it, you know, what American accent? [00:13:11] Speaker B: I. To be honest with you, at first, I. It was a weird thing with her character because I didn't think she had any lines at all at first. And now that I think about it, what she did, I believe she. She seemed to be playing like a Latina. Is that right? A woman in the movie. If I could be completely off base on this. But it's. She definitely didn't. She had some kind of an accent, but it wasn't British. And to me, in my opinion, interesting. Anyway, I think I've seen two. [00:13:35] Speaker A: I've never seen the first one. [00:13:36] Speaker B: Well, this is three. [00:13:37] Speaker A: I'm talking, right? [00:13:38] Speaker B: Three, yeah. Wow. [00:13:39] Speaker A: That's right. I know we shot right past two, around three. [00:13:41] Speaker B: Well, two is just. I mean. But you know what? I should say 1 and 2 were kind of slow moving, you know, a little, you know, this movie three, I'm saying it's kind of like the other two. But then all of a sudden, it almost reminds me like Temple of Doom from. We talk about the. What's the beer? What's the takeoff line there? From when he comes out of the spell and then from there to, like, the ending. It's like a roller coaster ride of Temple of Doom youm know, when does the action kick off and then it doesn't stop, kind of. That's Death Wish 3. Like, it gets to one point when they. He decides, like, all right, we're gonna do this now. It's him against. It's like the end of Police Academy. It's like a raid. Like, there's like a million villains in the streets, and it's like a video game. Charles Bronson is just running around with the friends that he's made and they're running around blowing people away. It is. It is a Looney Tunes movie. It is a pure. It's a pure. It's almost like we could have made this movie from the standpoint of it's just guys sitting around. What can we do now? That's just. We don't give a fuck about reality at all. It is just Looney Tunes bonkers fun bullshit that's going on in this movie. Insanity, to be honest, is copyright. [00:14:44] Speaker A: Looney Tunes bonkers fun bullshit. [00:14:47] Speaker B: Because it's the idea that it's one of those things you watch. I can't believe that this movie got made. I can't believe that this movie got made. I can't believe that people got paid to do it. And I can't believe that there isn't anything more like this out there because it is just fun. And they don't. They don't give a fuck. It's just. It's. What a insane movie. [00:15:03] Speaker A: I feel like they did four or five of those, right? [00:15:05] Speaker B: They did at least a four. I haven't gone. There was a four and a five. And I'm Like, I don't know if I really want to do any more. I've watched three, and I can't. To me, that's the pinnacle of. [00:15:14] Speaker A: And I'm pretty sure Bruce Will did a remake of it. [00:15:16] Speaker B: He did. Which I did not check out. I wonder if that was one of the last movies he must have made before. Like, he's suffering through some shit now. [00:15:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before the. Was he a frontal temporal dementia? [00:15:25] Speaker B: Is that what it was? Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think it was some kind of dementia. [00:15:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually use him as an example when I do my. I'm certified to do this cognitive care and dementia presentation for orientation at a job we have. We work in assisted living. And I always. I always bring that up as. You know, it sort of brought frontal temporal dementia into the. The headlines again, because Bruce Willis, unfortunately, has that. So. Yeah. [00:15:46] Speaker B: So, yeah, I thought that was an interesting. You know, watch Death Wish 3. [00:15:50] Speaker A: Not. Not an ideal role for her. And it's pretty dark, but. Yeah. [00:15:53] Speaker B: And again, this movie came out in 85, so it's got to be right before the Trek. Right. [00:15:58] Speaker A: Next Generation got cast a year later. [00:16:00] Speaker B: Yeah, it's crazy interesting. [00:16:02] Speaker A: So. Yeah. So, yeah. So let's talk about some of the episode. So, folks, today we are talking about the episode the Last Outpost. Yeah. So this is the fourth episode of season one. It's the fourth episode Bomber has seen, and it's got a 6.3 on IMDb which is much higher than the 5.1 code of honor had. But let's talk about it. So the Enterprise makes a confrontational first contact with the piratical. I'm not sure this is a word. Piratical. P I R A T I C A L. I'm leaving this in Bomber. The Enterprise makes a confrontational first contact with the piratical Ferengi race as their two ships are ensnared by a presumed dead planet. Ready to judge them. Am I mispronouncing that word? [00:16:46] Speaker B: Which word? Here, I get it. [00:16:48] Speaker A: They're saying they're pirate esque. [00:16:49] Speaker B: It's pronounced Enterprise. No, piratical. [00:16:54] Speaker A: Piratical. [00:16:55] Speaker B: I think that's. [00:16:55] Speaker A: I've never heard that word before. That's a word that's pretty cool. [00:16:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I definitely have heard it before. I'm trying to think of where, like, talking about, like, some. Maybe some different podcasts about some swashbuckling movies or something. You hear. That's cool. [00:17:05] Speaker A: That makes total sense. We definitely. Based on the context, I knew what it meant. So pirate esque behavior. So, yeah. So the last Outpost. Again, just for these next couple episodes, we're refreshing Bomber's memory a little bit. He mentioned, starting with episode six, he's going to take some notes and we're going to get our shit together here a little bit. Again, this isn't his fault. We should have prompted this recording a little quicker. Anyway, the last Outpost. So they come in contact with this Ferengi ship. The Ferengi at this point in this Trek lore are still pretty mysterious. The Enterprise power is being drained and they're like, what weapon do these Ferengi have that's letting them drain all this power? Turns out, spoiler alert. You know, both the ships are being drained and the source is the planet. So they go down to the planet, both ships send an away mission, and some fucking ridiculousness ensues with this Ferengi landing party. But they encounter this ancient civilization. And it's pretty cool when the Ferengi sort of get their comeuppance for being sort of, you know, shallow, cheap, you know, capitalists, basically. Ferengis are all about profit and. Yeah. And, you know, the Enterprise prevails, of course, and no one dies. And it's still a cool episode, but we do get our first look at the Ferengi. So let's start with your overall impressions of the episode from what you can remember. [00:18:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you know, again, it's not really that fresh to me, but the Ferengi thing, which I think is such a weird name for anything Ferengi, just sounds fucking funny to me. So, you know, sounds alien to me. What about. This is the first time this. So they weren't in the original series. [00:18:36] Speaker A: No, this is a brand new. They wanted a new. A brand new foil enemy for the Next generation crew for 24th century. It's. This is a weird one because they struck out as far as making them a real menace. [00:18:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:51] Speaker A: But the Ferengi ended up being one of the most fleshed out species in all of Trek. You know, we'll get to that down the road. You know, Quark being a main character on D space 9 as a Ferengi, the world building around Ferengi just really took off. So it's odd that they didn't really. Didn't really click in this context. But the Ferengi do not go away in Next Gen. You'll see them a lot more. And they revived, they refined them a little bit. They no longer use those whip weapons. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you remember they had these whip weapons that sort of freeze you, you know. Yeah, they got rid of that. The Ferengi ended up being more of a, you know, go down to the planet and fight them. And they ended up. Sorry, less of a go down the planet fight the. More of just this annoying species that we respect because we're evolved humans, but my God, they're annoying. And all they want, all they care about is profit and money and gold and that kind of shit. [00:19:40] Speaker B: So, yeah, so, yeah, you know, I wish it was a little more, you know, right there for me, this episode. You know, I remember, you know, just even seeing the recap and when they go down there, that. That part was definitely memorable. On their. On their fucking thing. Fighting them or battling them. Like I said, the guy. The guy. The guy you mentioned in the recap team that. The fact that they take out Data and Worf pretty quickly is pretty insane. I think it is. [00:20:03] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, there's that one shit where Worf's got like one on his shoulders trying to. He's fighting little kids. [00:20:08] Speaker B: It's right, right. [00:20:09] Speaker A: That is kind of fun. That was a funny moment. [00:20:10] Speaker B: And then you have that wizard guy that he kind of looked like, you know, David Bowie fucked Christopher Walker from Batman Returns. What a weird looking dude that is. [00:20:20] Speaker A: That is 100% true. Christopher Walker, the Batman Returns. [00:20:22] Speaker B: I love it. Just that hairdo he had going on, like, what are you doing? You know. But this guy's got like a wizardy, like, cloak on is, you know. [00:20:30] Speaker A: Yeah, he's pretty much Gandalf. [00:20:32] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:20:33] Speaker A: And yeah, so he represents the Takan Empire. Like an empire. An ancient, ancient empire that, you know, sort of, you know, fell, you know, centuries ago. That's pretty cool. [00:20:44] Speaker B: Was he like the knight from Last Crusade? Like this good dude was like a thousand years old, whoever the fuck it was, 100%. [00:20:48] Speaker A: And he was like a. I don't think he was technically alive. He was more like a remnant. [00:20:52] Speaker B: Oh, really? Okay. [00:20:53] Speaker A: Yeah. If I remember correctly, again, this isn't one of my all time favorites, so I don't revisit it a lot, but from what I remember, yeah, he was just kind of like an echo of the previous Empire species, which is cool. A little side note for me, like, the Takan Empire, I had this book that I adored and just read over and over when I was in my 20s, in the 90s, when I was really getting into Trek, it was called Star Trek Chronology. Or I should say it's. Yeah, the chronology of the future. But it's really cool because it starts out 6.5 or no, starts out 15 billion years ago when the universe was created. And it goes all the way up until the 24th century. So it's pretty cool. And like, they have. They mix in like human events. It's as if Star Trek really happened. And they mix in like Lincolnshot, you know, and the Trill form their society, you know, I mean, the same year, you know. So it's really. It's a fucking, really fun book. And the reason I'm bringing it up now, because the Deccan Empire was so ancient that it's on like the first or second page. So I always thought that was fascinating. So it's like the universe forms, Earth forms, the Big Bang, you know, like this species, and then the Jakan Empire forms, you know, 7800 million years, you know. So I always thought that was just fascinating how ancient it was. And it was right there at the forefront of that book. Yeah, so I constantly. And that guy is in the picture. [00:22:13] Speaker B: Oh, is it really? [00:22:14] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's pretty cool. So I always. That episode always stuck. This episode always stuck out because it was part of that experience for me. [00:22:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And I feel like, you know, the interesting thing to me is that while you were reading about the Deccan Empire, I was doing something else at the time. It's called getting laid. I just wanted to come up with something there. [00:22:32] Speaker A: Can you imagine? So when I was reading this book, you were nine. So you were getting laid at nine, were you? [00:22:40] Speaker B: No, definitely not. No. But I. Yeah, like, so I think there is an element of that that is. So now I was gonna ask, has the Takan Empire been involved in this before? This is the first time you're hearing about that too, I guess. [00:22:51] Speaker A: First time, last time. [00:22:52] Speaker B: Oh, really? No shit. [00:22:53] Speaker A: Yeah. It won't be the case all the time. Like I said with the Ferengi, this is first time. And you're gonna see him a whole lot more. [00:22:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:22:58] Speaker A: But a lot of these are gonna be one offs. A lot of these are gonna be. Yeah, first time, last time. I don't think it's even ever been referenced. But if I'm wrong about that, folks, you know, hit us up. [00:23:07] Speaker B: Now, is this something that is a Star Trek unique thing too, where it's like, you know, you're just kind of like these writers at the time, Especially in the early parts of the season of these shows, are they just like throwing shit up against the wall, being like, oh, let's see if this. What species is gonna hit? You know, I mean, like, you know, like The Ferengi, they're like, oh, we could fuck around with this little bit more. But this guy, they're like, ah, this character's kind of boring. Fuck him. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, great question. [00:23:27] Speaker A: I'll tell you what, I feel like it's a. It's a mix of a couple things. I feel like, in a good and bad way, they took a lot of cues from the original series, as far as, like, you said, what they kind of sort of threw at the wall in that first season. Right. So here's why. It's maybe not necessarily a great thing. Some of those concepts were a little outdated. Right. Some. Some of them. And I think it was hit or miss with the first season of Next Gen, much like it was with the original series. But what's great about them taking cues from the original series is the original series. And I mentioned the last pod, how I love big swings. Took some huge swings, and they didn't hesitate to make these concepts and ideas really big. [00:24:07] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:08] Speaker A: You know, like, whereas as a Viewer in the 80s, you could wrap your head around a species, an empire that was, you know, it's 5,000 years old. Because on Earth, we have civilizations that are 5,000 years old. Right. But when you start saying things like, this was 300 million years ago this empire existed, I can't imagine the average TV goer quickly wrapping their head around that. That enormity of time. [00:24:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:32] Speaker A: But I love that he did that because that's one of the things that fascinated me. And the original series would do that. You know, there's an episode, I think the Doomsday machine came from, like, another galaxy, which alone is insane when you think about that. Trek doesn't even do that that often. It's pretty much one galaxy. And to travel further than that would be. Would take some weird technology, some crazy. Now, that being said, the next episode, we're going to talk about where no one has gone before. They went through a bunch of galaxies. But that's, that's, that's a rare case. But I like that they took big swings like the original series ideas kind of did. [00:25:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:03] Speaker A: So, yes, to answer your question in a long winded way, I apologize. They did sort of do that a lot. They kind of took these big, big swings and just these concepts didn't always work. [00:25:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:12] Speaker A: But when they do, man, there's a nice payoff there. [00:25:14] Speaker B: Yeah. No, and I think that I, you know, like I said, meeting a character like this, you like, you know, it reminds me of the ones from the one before Lutan's race where it's like, you know, ye. They're. They're taking. I like the idea too that you have those, those standalone episodes too, where you don't necessarily need to have them in a bunch more after that, you know, because then if you do throw a cameo, like we're talking about the Frank Gorshin character, there was like, you know, all of a sudden, you see, it's like, oh, that's like a little bit of fan service in a way too, where it's like, oh, there's this character. I haven't seen them. But, you know, we don't need to know more than that. I don't know. You know what I mean? [00:25:47] Speaker A: I'll tell you what, you know. And yes, you know, in some instances, I do believe it's fan service, something like that. I think it's just a great way to sort of, you know, use the existing universe. [00:25:56] Speaker B: You have to make it realistic. [00:25:58] Speaker A: Why wouldn't there be one of his species working in this bar? [00:26:00] Speaker B: Yeah, it's all. [00:26:01] Speaker A: And I love that. I love the Trek does that a lot. Lower decks does that to great effect. [00:26:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:06] Speaker A: And I love that. I lost track. [00:26:09] Speaker B: I wanted to say something good. [00:26:11] Speaker A: The one thing I really love about the episode you just brought up Code of Honor in, you know, juxtaposing this episode, Last Outpost is they. So it's two attempts, two ideas thrown out there. But the first one, they take an existing sort of culture and idea from Earth, right? [00:26:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:25] Speaker A: And they say, all right, let's sort of appropriate this. Which again is not necessarily a good thing. But then they say, all right, now we're going to make it a species that's completely alien to Earth. We're going to make the setting completely alien and this is going to be something that we can't even wrap our head around. And I like that. So it's the same sort of concept as far as an episode goes, with two different brand new cultures, but two completely different sort of source ideas, which I think is really great. And that's sort of the, you know, good dichotomy there. It's sort of a good, you know, diversity as far as attract ideas goes. And I like that. [00:26:59] Speaker B: And the Ferengi character makes it. [00:27:02] Speaker A: Yeah. We gotta talk about your first impressions. [00:27:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm trying. I don't really remember overall their whole thing. Like, I definitely want to rewatch this or check out the Ross Perot ears. [00:27:10] Speaker A: With the ass head species. [00:27:12] Speaker B: I was trying to remember what we. I Knew we referenced their look before. [00:27:15] Speaker A: See our top 10 species pod for that little reference. [00:27:18] Speaker B: I. I feel like they look like something that you, if you were talking to Joe Blow on the street about Star wars or Star Trek, I mean, you're gonna know, you know, the main players, like Han and Luke or Spock and Kirk. But it's like when you think about a villain or an alien, this could be a face. You would think like, this guy belongs in the cantina bar in Star wars right away, you know, the lucky guy. [00:27:38] Speaker A: It's a very unique makeup job that they did. I think it's interesting. I feel bad for the actors who have to wear them, but I think they made them really distinctive. And if you would have told me in 1987 that when I'm watching this episode that this species would end up probably being in the top 10 known species in Star Trek, I'd be like, you're out of your fucking mind. This screamed a one off, weird species, maybe a comment on capitalism, and they're out. You know what I mean? But they really did a great job down the line when you see how they evolved, the Ferengi species. [00:28:07] Speaker B: And I don't know why I always use this as a reference point, but whenever I talk about people, about pop culture or who's known or famous or what thing is this or that, I always say, if you went to a bar and it was 10 guys sitting at the bar and you went down the line, how many of them are gonna say, yeah, I know this, you know, And I'm thinking about this. Like you said, this Ferengi being a top 10 species. [00:28:28] Speaker A: I feel like I just threw that out there. But you can do the math. [00:28:31] Speaker B: In my mind, I could be completely talking to my ass now, which I usually do anyway. But I feel like if you went to a bar in America and went down the line, showed the picture of this thing, if you ask them what this is from, I think maybe at least five of them, maybe more, maybe six or seven. If they were to guess, they would say Star Trek. Yeah, maybe they would say Star wars, but they probably would say one of the two. I would guess. [00:28:55] Speaker A: I would think so, too. [00:28:56] Speaker B: But if you asked them what the species was, if you got one out of 10, I think I'd be shocked. [00:29:01] Speaker A: I would have to agree with that. [00:29:03] Speaker B: Because I don't think, like, for me, personally, myself, I don't know. I never heard the term Ferengi till I told you started. No, I don't think it's out in the pop culture. [00:29:10] Speaker A: You might have said. You might not have said Vulcan, but you would. You would have said Spock if you saw a picture of a Vulcan. [00:29:14] Speaker B: No doubt. No doubt. [00:29:15] Speaker A: So, yeah, So I would say to use your scenario, you take 10 people and you show them a picture of a random Vulcan. I'd say maybe three of them or four of them might know the term Vulcan. [00:29:27] Speaker B: No doubt. I agree with you there. [00:29:28] Speaker A: And then it gets less with each, you know. [00:29:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:30] Speaker A: Maybe show them a Borg. Maybe two would know it was a Borg. Yeah, yeah, but Ferengi, I'd be shocked if one out of the ten would. [00:29:36] Speaker B: And again, I'm not. Obviously, you're not into. There's not a Trekkie in the 10 guys. Obviously, we're talking about just regular guys that don't. [00:29:42] Speaker A: I always wonder what that ratio would be. [00:29:43] Speaker B: Well, I'm saying. I'm saying if. If there was one, you can't count him. I'm talking about guys that don't. [00:29:48] Speaker A: They're not. Oh, I see. [00:29:50] Speaker B: They're Star Trek. Like me, maybe. Star Trek. Curious. [00:29:52] Speaker A: Yeah, but they're. [00:29:53] Speaker B: Or they're just Star Trek, you know. Not at all. Yeah, but. But the idea is those guys. I want to know, do you know what a Ferengi is? You know what I'm saying? You heard the term. [00:30:02] Speaker A: You'd be hard pressed to find some in just a random group of people. [00:30:06] Speaker B: 10, right. [00:30:07] Speaker A: Say, you probably have to get to 40 or 50 to, like, start. Like. [00:30:11] Speaker B: I think Vulcan would be one that they. You have. You know, they would hear. But I don't know what would be number two after that. Like, would it be bored? [00:30:18] Speaker A: Number one would be Klingon. [00:30:20] Speaker B: No doubt. No question about it. [00:30:22] Speaker A: If we're breaking it down, if you use the 10, I'd say at least 4. [00:30:25] Speaker B: I agree. [00:30:26] Speaker A: Random strangers would know it's a Klingon. [00:30:27] Speaker B: I agree. [00:30:28] Speaker A: That's how sort of seeped in. So, yeah, so after you get past Klingon, I'm gonna put Vulcans and Romulans in the same category because nobody would. Unless you're a Trek fan. You wouldn't know the difference. You would see the pointy ears and. [00:30:38] Speaker B: You would think, yeah, totally. [00:30:39] Speaker A: So, yeah, so you put like, Vulcan. I'd say, Borg is probably up there now. [00:30:43] Speaker B: Yeah. I think out of all these we've mentioned, I think Ferengay would be towards the end of that. [00:30:45] Speaker A: Me, too. Yeah. So that's interesting. Yeah. So this was the first time, you know, we see the Ferengi, like I said, and they're hard to latch onto now. But I think they immediately. And I think they were largely used for comic relief in this episode too. But they immediately default to that next time you see them. Like they are a menace in the first season. Still, this couple episodes where they do do some damage and they can do damage and they can kill people, but for the most part they're like an annoyance. And it's interesting. I'm kind of thinking about, while we're talking about this, thinking about the Ferengi and, you know, the Ferengi, I think they're meant to be a mirror up against bad capitalism. Right? Capitalism run, run amok, where profit is the only end. And I think it's interesting. And I don't think the creators came up with this concept. I think it just kind of fell into place. And either way, I'm down with it. But I think the reason why humans humons find the Frankie so annoying is maybe because it's a reminder of what we used to be. Right? So. And again, I don't think this was the plan if it was great, and I love you guys even more than I could possibly. But I think it's interesting that the Ferengi became sort of a mirror image of what humanity used to be in Trek lore and what humanity is today to this day. And I think that's really fascinating because there's. That does get explored in some Ferengi episodes. They do, you know, really explore the idea of, especially on DSpace9, the idea of capitalism and whether it works or doesn't work, the intolerance towards capitalism and communism and socialism and all that kind of thing and really totalitarianism, when you think about, you know, Cardassia is really fascinating and they end up being used for a phenomenal social commentary reason. And I mean, the Ferengi. So in that sense, the evolution of that species is pretty remarkable within a TV series. [00:32:29] Speaker B: And, you know, for some reason, too, I don't know why I'm comparing it to Star wars, maybe because I just know it better. But I'm like. When you're talking about the Ferengi being like an annoyance for some reason, I'm kind of equating him now to like the Jawas in a way. You know, like they're kind of. They're like in these annoying character, like they. And the first episode to present it to be somewhat menacing and I'm just talking on my ass. I don't know the Ferengi like you do, but I'm saying they're not the Borg, you know, what I mean, so it's like they're like these little annoying guys that they're. They're doing their fucking thing to make money or whatever it is, but they're like. They're not really, though, you know, the. You're not the main threat here. You know, like, you're playing a video game. You're not the guy at the end. You're like this aunt in the first board. [00:33:03] Speaker A: He's the Goombas that you jump on to get the bowser. Yeah, exactly. [00:33:06] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:33:07] Speaker A: I'll tell you what. It's funny you mentioned that you mentioned the Borg because there was one of our. One of our Instagram posts we put up there. I think we were doing the species pod, right? And I was like, who. Who's gonna be the best species on the planet? And I put up a picture of the Borg and the Ferengi next to each other. It was the Borg queen and Rom and, like, you know, obviously. But what's really funny is anyone who doesn't know Trek is watching that they might be like, I wonder who's gonna win that battle. [00:33:29] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Totally. Totally. [00:33:30] Speaker A: In my head, I'm laughing hysterically when I picture Rom going up against the Borg queen. That, to me, is that. That should be a fucking movie. That's the next movie on Paramount. F. Yes, man. Fucking great. I would love to see that. Yeah. So it's funny you brought that up. So, yeah. So the Ferengi, you know, they are what they are, but I really am interested to see, you know, what your opinions are as we move, you know, forward in the Ferengi. Ferengi lore. Yeah. [00:33:51] Speaker B: But, you know, as far as the episode, I did look up my rating. I gave it a 6.5. [00:33:55] Speaker A: Is that right? [00:33:55] Speaker B: I did, yeah. [00:33:56] Speaker A: Good for you. But I don't. [00:33:57] Speaker B: I wish I remembered it more. Like, you know, I'll try to remember, like, Kirk, Picard and Riker. Like, was it. Was there a lot of. Was there any cool scenes there with them or, like. I'm trying to remember what the whole overall thing. Riker. [00:34:07] Speaker A: Riker was a big scene. Riker. So Riker. Data war. If they go down to the planet. I remember that Riker ends up talking with the wizard guy. [00:34:13] Speaker B: Because I was gonna ask you. Because I remember, like I said, I remember Data and Worf getting taken out, but I remember Riker battling. And I'm trying to remember how his resolution thinking, so. That's right. He started talking to the guys and he kind of diffused everything, I guess. [00:34:24] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty much. And I can't remember if this was the first mention of Picard's love with archaeology. I don't remember if this was or not. But I know in the recap you just watched, it's funny because they said Picard didn't know anything about this, which is strange because. Because he is such a die hard archaeologist. He came this close, as you'll learn in a subsequent episode, a few episodes, that he came this close to studying archaeology and not joining Starfleet. [00:34:45] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:34:46] Speaker A: Or should I say leaving Starfleet to study archaeology, blah, blah, blah. [00:34:48] Speaker B: Could have been Indiana Jones. [00:34:50] Speaker A: Could have been Indiana Jones. [00:34:51] Speaker B: But there was a cool scene, I remember that from the episode, made me think back to watching it, was that when they were in that room trying to decipher all the shit. Like him, Data Riker and Geordi I think was in there. [00:35:01] Speaker A: Right? [00:35:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I would imagine that was a pretty cool. I like those kind of scenes. [00:35:05] Speaker A: I'll tell you what. Yeah, some of my favorite, like obviously I'm not gonna be like, oh, this is the best scene, you gotta watch it. But yeah, some of my favorite, like low key scenes were always in the conference room. It's kind of cool with like, especially with it with a concept show. So you. The shit happens and then you catch your breath and you sort of get caught up on the exposition of it. Right? [00:35:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:23] Speaker A: And that's a great device for television. And that conference room is certainly used for that. It was rarely used for drama or confrontational purposes. It was usually like, all right, this is. We're moving from act one to act two. What are we gonna do? And just hearing all the different opinions. There's great opportunity there for character development, but really for expositional, moving the story along. [00:35:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:42] Speaker A: And you know, I'm not gonna tell you that's the best writing device, but I love it. [00:35:46] Speaker B: And I feel like, especially for things you've seen a million times, you know, I think about again, I'm bringing up King Kong again, but you can even go to Star wars too, where it's like, like when you're a kid, I remember you just want to watch King Kong fucking attack shit, you know. But as an adult, it's like when they're approaching the island and the captain's talking, you know, do you ever hear a Kong? And you know, they're dissecting this whole myth and everything. Or like I said, Star Wars. It's like when you're a kid, you want to get to the Death Star and all that, you know, on the run, tatooine It's a little boring here, you know, when you're an adult, it's like, I want to hear Obi Wan talk to Luke about his dad and shit. You know? I mean, those kind of scenes, those are the best shit when you're old as well. [00:36:21] Speaker A: Largely overlooked, right? I mean, there's a reason why movies like 12 Angry Men and, you know, I can't think Glengarry Glen Ross are so fascinating to watch. If you get the right actors in the right writing, just people talking becomes great drama. I'll tell you what, it reminds me of Apollo 13 a lot. I'm watching Apollo 13 and as good as Tom Hanks and Kevin Bacon and Bill Paxton and those scenes in the shuttle are. And, you know, the special effects, I couldn't wait to get back to Mission Control and hear these guys talk about how they were gonna solve this problem. And that's quintessentially what we're talking about. Right? I love scenes like that. Love them. You can meet people talking in a really, really good way sometimes. There's sometimes no better writing than that. I suppose that's, you know, it speaks to why it speaks. It's weird that I'm not into more theater and stuff like that because really, that's a large part of why people like theater and like the writing behind that, stuff like that, so. [00:37:13] Speaker B: But I do think it helps to. I've seen something multiple times too, because then you really get into it because you miss some stuff the first time out and all that, you know. But when you get back into it, you're like, oh, you break it down more, I feel like. But. But I did like that aspect of it. I like those scenes so far, like them meeting up, figuring shit out, which is always a fun thing, I think. But overall, I like the episode. Yeah, I mean, I. Like I said I wish I remembered more about it here, but. [00:37:35] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you said, you know, we'll. We're gonna work on that and fix that. But I like the rating. 6.5. No episodes got more than 6.5. [00:37:42] Speaker B: I know that I was gonna say, yeah, yeah, so far. [00:37:44] Speaker A: So we're not gonn. Recap. 176 episodes. But since we're still early on in the series, I'll tell you guys that Bomber rated Encounter at Farport and naked now a 6.5. He did give code of honor a 6.0, which I was interested by, and another 6.5 for last outpost. So I am eternally curious to what he rated the next episode. So the next Episode folks we're going to talk about is where no one has gone before. Certainly one of my favorite episodes of the first season. Maybe top 20 for the. For the show. Maybe even top. I can't remember if it was in my top 10. I don't think it was, but it was certainly close if it wasn't. I love this episode. It's the episode I point to when I tell people that's the first great episode of Next gen. So I'm curious to see what Bomber thinks about that. But as far as Last Outpost goes, any final thoughts or comments? Bomber? [00:38:31] Speaker B: It's my last viewing. I'm moving on the last viewing. Alright, he's done. Yeah, no, that's about all I got. I wish I had more for you there, but the memory is not what it was about. About this one. I need to watch it again, but I'm curious to get into some more Ferengi shit here, you know, and for. [00:38:48] Speaker A: Those of you who I know are out there yelling like, well, why don't you just watch it again? I know I should have before you recorded a podcast. [00:38:53] Speaker B: I was watching section 31. [00:38:55] Speaker A: So that's. We're gonna clean that up. We got one more episode where, you know, we're gonna do a recap, but then we're gonna. From episode six, we're gonna make it a little tighter, folks. So listen, thanks so much for listening, man. We. We really appreciate it. I can't believe that there's one person out there who wants to listen to us talk about Star Trek, let alone more than that. So, yeah, thank you so much. TikTok and Instagram T Warp 10. And you can send us an email at warp10gmail.com look out for our High Five podcast. That'll be coming out maybe around the same time. This is out. Might be out already. Give that a look. We got our intro pod dropping and then top five Bugs Bunny cartoons. We're not just talking about Star Trek anymore, folks. Top five everything. You're going to have fun listening to it. I hope you do. And thank you again. And Byron, last thoughts. [00:39:39] Speaker B: You know, don't let a Ferengi bite you on the ass on the way out. You know, that's about all I got for you. [00:39:44] Speaker A: See you later.