"Courtroom" Episodes

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Discovery. Going throttle up ten. 987-65-4321 hello, and welcome to the Star Trek Warp top ten podcast. What's going on, trekkies? Trekkers. I'm Phil, your co host, and as always, I'm joined by Brian Parks. What's going on, Bomber? [00:00:37] Speaker B: Yes. Not that much. I'm pumped up here for another Star Trek discussion here, even though I don't know what the hell we're going. We're talking about. [00:00:45] Speaker A: That's all right. You should be pumped up. We got a fun one. It's a little different. I think you're going to appreciate this one from multiple perspectives. Yeah, we're gonna be getting into top ten courtroom style episodes. [00:01:00] Speaker B: Wow. Okay. [00:01:01] Speaker A: Interesting. [00:01:01] Speaker B: Yeah, this is. I mean, you know what could be more boring than Star Trek? Star Trek in court. I mean. Holy shit. Holy shit. No, interesting. I'm pumped up. [00:01:14] Speaker A: You know, it is. You know, it's funny. When I first started thinking about this category, I. You know, I was like, oh, that'd be cool to do that. Is there even enough? And there definitely is. I had to eliminate, like, there was. There was, I think, 13 that I counted courtroom style episodes. Now, definition of that is, you know, a sort of gray area. We'll get into that. But, um. But first, a little housekeeping from last episode. So I did the solo pod, you know, last time we did next gen, season, two episodes. And, you know, I went off the rails a couple times. I know that. I'm aware. But one glaring sort of mistake that I made, I was talking about an episode called Pen Pals, and I was really digging the fact that Picard, the captain, brought everybody into his quarters to kind of discuss what was happening, something you really didn't see him do after, like, season two. But I think I might have said, you know, they were in his ready room, not in his quarters. I know that's a silly thing to correct, but when I was listening to it and doing the edit, I was like, ugh. I was just disgusted with myself, so couldn't live with it. So anyone out there who was like, it wasn't in his frickin ready room, asshole was in the court. Well, you're right. You're dead right. Know that one. Wrong. [00:02:24] Speaker B: How dare you. [00:02:25] Speaker A: Here's the good news. All the housekeeping I have. [00:02:27] Speaker B: Wow. Interesting. So how dare you? [00:02:30] Speaker A: Hey, that don't mean that I didn't fuck up a lot more than that. Just means it's the only one I caught. [00:02:34] Speaker B: So it's not the ready room. It's something else. [00:02:36] Speaker A: It's not his ready room. The ready room is. I don't know if you. From the pilot, if you remember, just off the bridge, there's that one room where he goes in there where his desk is. He hangs out, just kind of talks. Yeah, that's his ready room. It's like the captain's office, basically. [00:02:51] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. [00:02:51] Speaker A: But this was in his quarters in the, you know, in the saucer section. This was his quarter, so. Yeah, so I thought it was cool that they. They kind of had a couple scenes in there, sort of informal way to talk about what's going on. Like, all right, everybody, just. I really want your opinions. You don't got to call me captain. Just tell me if you think this is right. Wrong. When, you know, advice. What should we do? [00:03:11] Speaker B: I, by the way, I was gonna say, after listening to that solid solo pod there. There was an episode you mentioned that made me think of. I don't know if anybody gives a rat's ass about Laurel and Hardy, but if we have any Laurel and Hardy fans out there, they might have thought about the same thing. I was gonna ask you. One of their late, maybe the last great movie they made was called Blockheads. And in the movie, it starts out in World War one, and they're in a trench and they have to go over and fight. You know, the captain says, we gotta go over the wall. Ali goes over with the captain and Stan stays behind. And it's like 1918, whatever, right at the end of World War one. So the war ends, and then it's 20 years later, it's 1938, which I think is when this movie came out. And Ali is now, you know, he's married, and he's walking down this hall in his apartment, and this guy's reading the newspaper and he goes, can you believe that? There's a guy that is still in a trench believing that the war is still going on? And Ollie's like, how could anybody. I don't know anybody that could be that stupid. Then he sees Stan's picture in the paper and he goes, oh, no, no, I do know somebody that could be that stupid. You know? You know. So Stan is in the. In the trench for 20 years, still thinking the war is going on. And was there. Was there. Am I mistaken that there was an episode in Star Trek? There was something like that. Am I my. [00:04:17] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. Yeah. There was the episode of the Emissary where Kayla, ambassador, Kaylar, the Klingon came back and she was like, we have to head off this Klingon ship that just got out of stasis. And they still think the Klingon Federation war is going on. [00:04:30] Speaker B: Right. Okay, okay, okay. I knew what. It was pretty wild. Made me think of that. Okay. [00:04:34] Speaker A: I mean, I heard there were actual stories. I might have mentioned this on the pod as well. There were actual stories in world war two of japanese soldiers who were, like, stranded on islands who, when they discovered them, they were, like, still ready to kill, you know, kill the allies, you know. [00:04:45] Speaker B: Crazy to think of, isn't it? Wow. [00:04:47] Speaker A: Yeah. But, I mean, I guess that makes sense, right? Why would they. [00:04:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:50] Speaker A: The war went on for. It was already going on for what, five years, right? 39 to what? 45. Six years, right. So who the hell knew in 1949? Why would they think that it was over automatically, you know? Makes sense, I guess. Pretty crazy shit. [00:05:02] Speaker B: There's like, a 95 year old guy around, like, I'm gonna get those guys. Like, no, no, it's done. [00:05:07] Speaker A: Mandy. If they set 1ft on his fucking island. Yeah. So, hey, good. Good. Listen in there. Yeah. You caught that. You wanted. You have Laurel and Hardy. [00:05:17] Speaker B: I know it was a good. I was good at. It was good episode. But I was gonna say. So getting back to today's thing, I was gonna say, I do remember the pilot. I feel like I remember you mentioning something about that could be a borderline courtroom scene or was that kind of a courtroom thing. The pilot? [00:05:32] Speaker A: 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? Um. It is, you know, it's funny. It's a. That scene, that old style sort of, you know, court that Q sort of presides over. It was in contention. I didn't include it. I didn't include that. Or the finale, which, you know, when you get there someday, you'll see it's kind of a nice bookend on the show, how Q brings them back to that sort of, you know, court, really, to render their final verdict. Right. As far as humanity and, you know, if they're worth it or not. I didn't include that. And talk about a lot of different things I thought about. So with corrupt style episodes, it's really vague, right. So you can kind of, you know, I guess I just considered, you know, episodes that were. Just had some sort of. Either. Not the whole episode, but, like, a good portion of the episode was sort of a courtroom or an arbitration or some sort of, like, you know, situation. Whether it's witnesses and, you know, people, you know, giving closing arguments and that kind of stuff. You know, just basic courtroom elements that we. That we, you know, that we equate with, you know, courtroom drama. Right. And who doesn't love a courtroom drama? Like me personally? Like, you give me, like, a few good men or a time to kill or, you know, even, like, a movie. Like, one of my favorites as a kid. What's that? [00:06:50] Speaker B: My cousin Vinnie. I said. What did you say? [00:06:52] Speaker A: 100%. Right. Perfect example. My cousin Vinny, like, any who doesn't like a courtroom drama, John Grisham, you know, novel turned to a movie. It's really good. Right. You know, pretty much every book he had was, like, a courtroom liar liar, lawyer liar. Right. Yeah. See, that was fun. See, there you go. It's good example that I wouldn't consider, like, a courtroom style movie. No, but that might make the cutoff if I was picking. No. [00:07:15] Speaker B: Anytime someone goes, your client was ridden more times than Seattle slew. We can't really take it seriously. By the way, I was gonna say, tell me Patrick Stewart couldn't make a judge wapner. You know, I mean, he could do a judge Watner couldn't. [00:07:29] Speaker A: He definitely could. Yeah. So, you know, when I started thinking about all the courtroom episodes, a lot of them are really good. A lot of them are some of my favorites, and it was just fun to put together a list like that. I think you'll appreciate it. You know, the framework of a courtroom gives you a frame of reference when I'm telling you these synopsis. I'm not just throwing the omega directive at you. Like, it's like, worf is on trial for, you know, that kind of stuff. So it's kind of easy for you to wrap your head around at least what type of episode it is. [00:07:56] Speaker B: Maybe because I was just listening to your last part about the next gen, season two. You did, right. Top ten, season two. So, in my mind, this is not just next gen. This is all Star Trek courtroom drama, shows, all tracks. [00:08:08] Speaker A: As a matter of fact, I have six different shows represented on today's list. [00:08:11] Speaker B: Wow. [00:08:12] Speaker A: Not on purpose. It's just how it worked out. [00:08:15] Speaker B: Right? Right. [00:08:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So, I mean, that's. Again, you know, you don't need to hear me preach about Star Trek. That's kind of what's great about Star Trek. You know, they got a lot to offer, and when you do a category like this, which we haven't done a category like this in a while, that sort of included a lot of different shows, you know, I tend to be very focused on the nineties shows, the next gen d, space Voyager. But this was a good opportunity for me not only to incorporate some of the great episodes that I love. But I actually rewatched a couple original series episodes. I watched. I rewatched the lower decks and I rewatched strange new worlds for preparation for this. And one from each of those did make this list. So that's going to be fun to talk about. [00:08:50] Speaker B: All right. All right. [00:08:51] Speaker A: Yeah. So, hey, listen, before we get started, hit us up on Instagram or TikTok. Check out our videos, check out our Instagram post. It's not much, but we're trying to put more content up there every day. Sdwarp ten. Or if you want to give us an email, you can email us at St Warp one, zeromail.com. let us know what's going on out there. Yeah. So I got, I got something exciting for you. I know, and exciting is a relative term. I understand that. But I. We're going to incorporate a little parrot sketch not included into today's list. It's been a while since we did that. You asked me for a while every pod, and then I didn't do it that often. So you said, you know what? I'm going to stop asking them. So, yeah, so, you know, one of my favorite episodes is an episode called Inquisition from D Space Nine's season 6D. Space Nine's amazing season six, my favorite season of Star Trek ever. You may remember, gentle viewers, however, the episode inquisition is not necessarily courtroom dial. It almost is. It's exactly what it sounds like. It's an inquisition where they just bring people into a room and they interrogate them. So it's more like a police interrogation than it is a courtroom style cross examination or anything. So I didn't include it. But the reason I'm parrot sketching it is because even if I did include it, it would have been number one. You know what I mean? Because it's one of my all time favorite episodes of Trek ever. So I didn't want that to impede a fluid sort of list. So I said, all right, and it's been a while since I've parrot sketched anything. If anyone is wondering what the reference is from, it's from Monty Python, one of their most famous sketches, the parrot sketch, the dead parrot sketch. You know, it was so overplayed and over performed and over requested that when they released their greatest hits, one of their greatest hits sketch videos, it was called Parrot Sketch not included because they said, screw it, we're not putting the most famous one in there. It'd be if Led Zeppelin put out a greatest hits and said stairway to heaven not included. So we're parrot sketch and inquisition. Sorry, William Sadler. Sorry, D space Nine. But you lost a good episode there on this list. What do you got? [00:10:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I definitely, definitely remember hearing you talk about that episode. So, yeah, I was gonna say I wasn't sure if there was one that would be parrot sketched on this whole thing, so I didn't. I didn't. I didn't even think of that for some reason, but, yeah. Okay, very interesting. All right, so that's out. All right, that's it. [00:11:03] Speaker A: Out. It's technicality and. Yeah, and I got one honorable mention. Let's throw an honorable mentions. We're doing parrot sketches and honorable mentions. Let's just get it all out there. I do have an honorable mention. It is from Dspace Nine's first season episode called Dax, where Judzia Dax is sort of put on trial for murder. A lot of interesting twists and turns in that first season of. First episode of D Space Nine there with a courtroom. Not a great, great episode, but definitely worth watching. And like I said, it's definitely a courtroom episode, but it was one that did not make the list. Number eleven. So that's the honorable mention. [00:11:36] Speaker B: Nice. Very cute. I actually have an honorable mention, too. There's an episode called you're in contempt, you klingon fuck. So I decided to leave that out of the. Out of the top ten. [00:11:47] Speaker A: That would be amazing. Anyway, hey, top ten courtroom episodes. You ready to rock? Let's do this. [00:11:54] Speaker B: Listen, let's step into the courtroom, shall we? Everybody fucking rise. [00:11:58] Speaker A: Time for the opening fucking argument, kids. All right, and look again, last thing I'll say about this is my courtroom style definition. Maybe a little loose. You tell me if we're wrong. Send me an email. Let us know if it's not really a courtroom episode in your opinion, or if it is. Let's do it. Number ten, the first duty. So this one is next gen, the first duty. [00:12:22] Speaker B: Okay. All right. [00:12:24] Speaker A: What do you got? [00:12:25] Speaker B: No, not that. The whole episode is the first time someone did this, and that's it. You know, I mean, you know, someone drops one and we just reanalyze that and we move on. Like, you know, this is the first one ever recorded. Great. You know, are we two years old here? I got it. The first duty. [00:12:43] Speaker A: That's hilarious. Part of me was like, is. I don't know if he's making that joke or not, but. Oh, you definitely were. You definitely were. [00:12:49] Speaker B: Now, what show is this? Now, what are we doing here? [00:12:51] Speaker A: Next gen, this is. This is NextGen season five. So a little preface before I read the description. So Wesley Crusher, you know, the kid who was on next gen. Yeah. Will Wheaton. Will Wheaton. So he was on the show for the first four seasons, and then he left in the middle of season four. But he did come back here and there as a recurring character, Wesley. And this was the first time, I believe, he came back. Wait, is it. It might have been an episode called the Game, but we'll see. Anyway, the first duty, 7.8 on IMDb. Wesley Crusher's team has had an accident at Starfleet Academy. Picard offers to help a Starfleet investigation as to what happened and begins to suspect they are hiding something. So this episode is the reason it's number ten, is because it's not all courtroom, right? And it's not like a. And, folks, when I say courtroom, like, we're not in. Like. Like I mentioned my cousin Vinny, courtroom right. Most of these are military tribunals or military court martials or arbitrations between alien species, but make no mistake, they're definitely using the earth model of, you know, objection and witnesses and, you know, blah, blah, blah. So in this episode is kind of cool. So. So Wesley is, uh. He leaves next gen. He leaves the Enterprise to go on Starfleet. To go to Starfleet Academy, um, you know, and finally do all his learning. He was gaining credits by being on the Enterprise, but he actually had to go. Go study at school. So he obviously, he's excelling at school. And he got asked to be on this, like, super, super team. This, um. I forget what they're called. They're not called Red Squadron. That's something else. [00:14:19] Speaker B: But I. [00:14:20] Speaker A: Anyway, so him and four others are like, the elite cadets, and they're pilots and they're, you know, they're jocks and they're, you know, they're popular kids, but there's an accident. One of the team dies, and then there's an investigation, and it turns out they're all kind of hiding something. And the first duty. The title of the episode comes from a really great speech from Patrick Stewart talking about how the first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth. And he kind of, you know, I mean, I don't think it's spoiling by saying at the end, Will Wheaton tells the truth, stands up and faces the consequences. But, you know, pretty good episode was good. Seeing Wesley again, being a little more mature, being fallible for once, which is good. Usually he was the squeaky clean kid. Didn't do anything wrong on the Enterprise. But him and his team, they're on trial and eventually the truth comes out. What do you got? [00:15:04] Speaker B: No, not that. I was just going to say maybe because this is number ten and it's not really at the top of the list, but I fucking zoned out completely. Can you start that all over again? What were you saying? You know, holy shit. The first duty. [00:15:15] Speaker A: Imagine. [00:15:17] Speaker B: No, I was gonna say it seems like it's set up for Patrick Stewart to give a great speech in something like this. You know what I'm saying? [00:15:26] Speaker A: 100%. [00:15:27] Speaker B: The whole dynamic makes it seem like you're waiting for that. So it might have to be awesome to watch that. [00:15:32] Speaker A: I feel like it was, and it's cool. Cause it was a change of. Change of scenery. It took place at Starfleet Academy. So you're not in space. Like, you're on. You're on the grounds in San Francisco. So it's kind of a different feel. It was kind of a cool episode in the middle of treks, you know, next Gen's fifth season. Some really cool guest stars. Ed, louder. I don't know if you know who that is. [00:15:49] Speaker B: Maybe I saw. [00:15:49] Speaker A: He's great. I mean, I first. I first knew him as Chadwick. He was the coach of Rob Lowe, Dean Youngblood's team in Youngblood, the hockey movie. Fucking awesome movie. He was on the X Files episode. He's in a million things, though, if you saw him, I guarantee you. Oh, that guy. He's one of those dudes. You just in a million things. Ed, louder. He was really great. He played the father of the kid who died and, um, added a real emotional. Yeah. Element. He was a Starfit officer, and he was, you know, he was just like, hey, listen, I know my son fucked up. I'm sorry. He almost got you all fucked up. Was really like, ah. Because they're like, fucking a. You know, because it wasn't the kid's fault. It was their fault, right? They tried to do something they shouldn't have. The kid got pushed into it, and he ended up dying, you know, so, wow. It's fucked up. Ray Walston, who I do know, you know, I love. [00:16:31] Speaker B: I love them. Of course. [00:16:32] Speaker A: Yes, I know who you played in. You played that character of mice and men. [00:16:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes. [00:16:38] Speaker A: Right? [00:16:38] Speaker B: Didn't you? Yes. My freshman year of college. [00:16:41] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:41] Speaker B: I played candy, and he was in the. In the Gary sinise version, right? With the. Who played Lenny in that? Gary didn't. Gary. [00:16:49] Speaker A: George Vincent d'Onofri. No. Dinofrio. [00:16:51] Speaker B: Hello. Right, okay. [00:16:53] Speaker A: Lenny, right? [00:16:54] Speaker B: Forever since I've seen it, to be honest. But, yeah, since then. But I think I watched the movie. [00:17:01] Speaker A: After I saw your play, actually, because I liked it a lot. [00:17:03] Speaker B: Same story. Yeah. I mean, I had read the book in probably high school or grade school or something like, it was a very popular book, I feel like, for schools, but maybe I'm only certain. It's funny how you talk to different friends. You're like, I read that in school. Or, I didn't read that in school. It's like, oh, you didn't read that? I read this, you know, I feel like to kill a machaber, we all had to read. But everything else, I'm like, you know, did you have to read of Meissen men? [00:17:26] Speaker A: We read kill a machinur, but I never got to read my. Hey, listen, am I going crazy? Did John Malkovich, was he mint in one version of my cement? [00:17:34] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe. You know what's funny? [00:17:36] Speaker A: I wasn't. [00:17:37] Speaker B: Maybe he was put Gary sinise with John Malcolm. So I'm like, maybe he was in it, but I don't know if he played Lenny. I don't know. Maybe he was. I can't remember, for some reason. And Ray Walston. Yeah. [00:17:48] Speaker A: And I'm not sure about Vincent D'Onofrio. I'm not sure about him now. I think my mind's playing tricks on me. [00:17:53] Speaker B: Neither am I. Like I said, it's been 20 years I've seen the damn thing. And I was gonna say to, um. Right there was an old. The original version of the movie was with Burgess Meredith. Played George. [00:18:01] Speaker A: Oh, played George. Wow, really? [00:18:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And Lon Shani Junior, who played the bulk, played Lenny. [00:18:08] Speaker A: He was Lenny. Okay. [00:18:10] Speaker B: But I. [00:18:11] Speaker A: Great, great story. [00:18:12] Speaker B: But Ray Wolfson, I was member from the sting. And what else? Damn, my favorite Martian. Wasn't he involved in that? He was. He's been in a million things. [00:18:19] Speaker A: He was. He was in Johnny dangerously. I know you don't remember that. [00:18:21] Speaker B: Johnny dangerously. I got to give that a rewatch. I do. I do. [00:18:24] Speaker A: Gotta watch that fucking movie again. So anyway, so, yeah, so he played a character called Boothby who Picard referenced a couple times before we actually saw him. He was the groundskeeper, even when Picard was the cadet there. He's been there for decades. He's like the wise sage who sees it all and gives advice to cadets and stuff. So it was cool finally seeing that character personified. And Ray Wollstone's always fun. He actually reprised that role on Voyager when they went to a mock version of Starfleet Academy. As, you know, Voyager's on the other side of the galaxy, so they couldn't actually go to Starfleet Academy, but an alien species set up a fake Starfleet Academy and Boothby was recreated. And so Ray Walston, probably one of his last roles. I think he, like, shortly after that. [00:19:08] Speaker B: 150 there. How the fuck old was he? Damn. [00:19:11] Speaker A: Yeah, he was up there. So anyway, yeah, so. So good guest stars. It was pretty decent episode. Like I said, it's number ten, you know, 7.8. But I think that's mainly for Wesley coming back, which, you know, even all the hate that Wil Wheaton got sometimes, it was still fun to see him come back. It's always fun to see a character return. So. Yeah, yeah, that was the first duty. Number 1001. More thing about that. And I know fans are, like, screaming at me for this. Robert Duncan McNeil, the character who. The actor who plays Tom Paris on Voyager. Okay, a character. Sorry if I get upset about this, folks. A character who screwed up in his youth, was sent to prison and eventually assuming, got out at some point. So this actor, same actor, has a recurring role on Voyager. A character who screwed up in his youth, goes to prison and comes out, why the fuck not make it the same character? It's two different characters. I will never get over this. Like, why didn't he play Tom Paris? I should say, why wasn't Nicholas Locarno, the name of him on Voyager? Like, it would make totally. What a continuity that would be. I mean, they went as far as, you know, one of the cadets who was also involved in the accident being on next gen. Seasons later, ironically enough, an episode called Lower Decks, which was kind of interesting. They took. They moved the story away from, like, the main characters. They showed you what happened sort of in the bowels of the ship. It was really cool. Anyway. How easy would it have been? It's almost like. It's almost like if Edward Norton had reprised his role as Hulk and was in the Avengers and all that stuff. Now, I love Mark Ruffalo, but what a great continuity that would have been. So why the fuck not have Robert Duncan McNeil play Nicholas Locarno? I'll never get over that. Anyway. Yeah, and I know. I know a lot of you out there are agreeing with me while I'm saying this shit, so if I'm wrong, tell me, but, you know, I'm not. [00:21:01] Speaker B: All right? I don't know either way, so I'll take your word for it on that. [00:21:05] Speaker A: That was. I'm sorry, that was a long winded number ten, but we're going to move on. Number nine, a matter of perspective. Another next gen episode. Okay? There's going to be. There's a few next gens on here. Let's not. Let's not kid ourselves, okay? But a matter of perspective gets no love on IMDb. This is a 6.7. Okay, cool girl, but I like it. I'll tell you why. The widow of a respected scientist, doctor Nell Apgar, accuses Riker of seducing her and killing her husband rather than turn Riker over for unfavorable trial. I didn't screw up the grammar. That's actually what it says in the IMDb description. The enterprise reconstructs the facts. This is an underrated episode, okay? It's from that long Joe DiMaggio stretch in season three of next gen, okay? Right smack dab in the middle of it. So they go down to the planet. There's a doctor, hot wife, Riker. He's a ladies man. He's obviously flirting a little bit, but he didn't do anything wrong. So they said. So he says the doctor is killed. And they're like, what the fuck happened? They're putting Riker on trial. And in their system of jurisprudence, you are guilty until proven innocent. The opposite of ours. So he's either gonna, like, you know, be put to death or in jail the rest of his life unless the Enterprise can prove that he was innocent. Here's what's cool about the episode. They do it clue style. So, like, they. It's called a matter of perspective. They show you what could have happened from, like, three different perspectives. [00:22:28] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:22:29] Speaker A: So Riker's got his story, the wife has his story. But then when they figure it out, they show the actual story of what happened, very much like the end of clue. Have you seen Clue? [00:22:37] Speaker B: I was gonna say. As soon as you said clue, I was like, okay. It made me think of immediately that it sounds like an episode I would love to watch. I like that framing idea. Like, because, again, it's different than what you're used to watching anyway. You know what I mean? Like, it's a different episode, but it's a fun. I like that version, that way of telling the story. [00:22:55] Speaker A: When I rented clue, when I'm watching it as a kid, you know, at home, and it ends, and you're like, okay, that was a cool movie. And then it's like. And then the title car comes on. It's like, that's what might have happened. Yeah, maybe it's. And you're like, oh, my God, this is so fucking cool. And then they went through a whole nother segment, and then it's like, yes, but this is what really happened. And you're like, this is the fucking coolest thing ever, you know? [00:23:14] Speaker B: No doubt, no doubt. [00:23:15] Speaker A: A lot of fun clue. Talk about characters. Fucking hilarious. Anyway, so this was kind of like clue style, right? But here's the really, really, really cool thing. When, you know, the enterprise Geordi and data, and, you know, the technical machine figures out exactly how he was killed, not only do they, like, spring it, like courtroom style, like bombshell, you know what I mean? But they, like, incorporate it into the reenactment to prove live that that's how it happened. You know what I mean? I will not go into the technical details of it, but it's very cool the way. The way it plays out. [00:23:46] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Wow. [00:23:49] Speaker A: A matter of perspective. No love. One of three a matter of blank episodes. In next Gen's run, they had an episode called a Matter of honor, which did not make my top ten in season two, which I said, I'm not a die hard fan of Klingon centric episodes, so that didn't make my list. But a matter of time. A super, super fun episode from season five. You may remember it's the episode in which Robin Williams was sort of earmarked to play the guest starring role, but then he couldn't do it. He did hook instead with Spielberg. So Matt frewer, who did a great job, stepped in. So anyway, this is the second best a matter of episodes and next gen, in my opinion. So 6.7. No love on IMDb, but it was a really cool courtroom style. There's a meme from this episode that is nonstop now. [00:24:36] Speaker B: Oh, really? [00:24:37] Speaker A: It's Riker and Picard side by side. And Picard says something, sets up a joke. The next shot, he says something fucking stupid. And Riker just face palms like that's. It's a very popular meme. You'll see it all the time. [00:24:48] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:24:48] Speaker A: That's from this episode, a matter of perspective. So. Yeah, there we go. Number nine, jump right in. Number eight. Any thoughts? [00:24:57] Speaker B: Yeah. No, I got nothing. No, you know, you said everything there with the. The only I was gonna say was, when you said the clue, didn't they do a. No, I do like to jump in with some kind of bullshit here, but I was gonna say the. The other thing that made me think of was the. I don't forget if you showed this to me or Alison showed it to me, but it's always sunny. Wasn't there the episode where they. The guys, Robin, the supermarket or something, and they each. Maybe it's not their own perspective, but they each imagine how the thing would happen, or they each imagine how they would take the gunman down or something. Is that what happens, or. [00:25:27] Speaker A: That is 100% correct, you know? Okay, but here's what's amazing about that. I thought you were going to. You caught me. I slipped a little, you know, asked me again sometime in there for. It wasn't Star wars, but, like, you know, talking about one of the best episodes of always Sunny is. I think it's the. It's called the McPoyles versus the Ponderosa's. If you don't know this, Allison would be dying right now. You gotta play this part when we record it. But. [00:25:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:58] Speaker A: Yes. So there's an episode where it's a whole courtroom episode. It's fucking hilarious. But Mac is obsessed with, what about the bombshell? Nobody's got a bombshell. Like, in his mind, you got to have a bombshell somewhere in the court proceedings that completely turns it on its head, you know? So when I said bombshell, I was absolutely thinking about that episode of always Sunny, and then when you said it reminds me of that episode, I was like, I can't believe you're going to. You're going to. You nailed that reference. But just a coincidence you had another always sunny episode in your head. [00:26:25] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. [00:26:26] Speaker A: That episode is also. Also hilarious, the one you're talking about where they're robbed and they just go inside their own heads and imagine what. What would happen if they were, like, stepped in, if they were heroes and shit. [00:26:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:38] Speaker A: Dennis's is the stuff of legends. [00:26:42] Speaker B: I was gonna say, this is one of those things where it's like, you wish you could have gone back to the trek episode that you could have in real life, you know? You know, and sometimes maybe you can with video evidence or something now. But it's like, you know, the idea of the defendant's gonna say what happened, the plaintiffs gonna say what happened. Like, all right, but this is what really happened. Like you wish to. It happened in every court case. Like our motherfuckers. You know what I mean? Like, I know. [00:27:04] Speaker A: And it's all down in the computer, right? It's all the computer. Can you extrapolate what happened based on blah, blah, blah. And that's it just kind of sets it up for you, the holodeck, and plays it. Obviously, there's, you know, a leap of fate there, and there's a suspension of disbelief, but it's still really cool, the way they. The way they present it. It was a good episode. [00:27:17] Speaker B: Cool girl. [00:27:18] Speaker A: Highly underrated. [00:27:19] Speaker B: Nice. [00:27:20] Speaker A: All right, you know what? We did enough next gen. Enough next gen. Let's go old school. Let's take this shit back. All right, you ready? That's right, guys. Don't have a heart attack. Phil's about to put a original series episode on his list. [00:27:31] Speaker B: Luke is fucking fainting right now somewhere. Yeah. [00:27:34] Speaker A: I'll tell you what. You know, discovery is over. Lower decks is ending. Picard's done. Like, I'm almost done with prodigy. I'm very excited to go back and watch the original series again, to really, like, really dive into it, you know what I mean? [00:27:48] Speaker B: Now, let me ask you now, has rewatching the animated series helped you also maybe want to watch the original series again? [00:27:55] Speaker A: 100%. 100%. I mean, we folks were like a week, maybe two away from doing our top ten animated series episode with Bomber. Brian Parks doing his own list. I am so goddamn excited. It's going to be so much fun. I'm rewatching it because I want to make sure if he brings something up, I'm familiar with it. I don't want to waste this opportunity to do a trek list with Bomber. [00:28:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. I almost wish we did it right off the right after I watched it, because now I want to make sure I remember. It'll be fun. It'll be fun. It'll be. [00:28:24] Speaker A: It will be a lot of fun. I'll tell you what, I was watching lower decks, the other animated show, and they referenced the animated series, and I had a little. Little tingle in my heart. It was so much fun. The fucking infinite Vulcan episode where they go to the plant planet and spot gets all giant and, you know, not as bad as people say. It is a lot of fun. [00:28:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:28:44] Speaker A: Spoiler alert for that list. Some of my. Some of my favorite episodes so far are some of the lowest rated ones on there. So it's gonna be. [00:28:52] Speaker B: I'm forward to that, but. All right, well, let's get back to the courtroom here. And we're going Og here. What are we looking at here? [00:29:00] Speaker A: Og tos right now? Die hard original series fans are going, okay, it's either one of two. It's either court martial or the menagerie. It's the menagerie, folks. Court martial did not make my list. At the risk of, you know, causing riots. Court martial didn't make my list. I did rewatch. It didn't quite make the list. But let's talk about the menagerie. You're gonna appreciate this one, bomber. This is really interesting. Really interesting network television behavior back in 1966. [00:29:27] Speaker B: I said, is this a Christmas episode? For some reason, that's the only thing I think of when you. The menagerie, you know? [00:29:32] Speaker A: Oh, really? No, no, it's nothing. So let me tell you. This is 8.2. It's a two parter I'm including as one. Oh, so it's the first park, it's an 8.2. 2nd park, it's an 8.1. Solid fucking episode. Spock kidnaps the disabled Captain pike, hijacks the Enterprise, and then surrenders for court martial. Right there. That's. That's an intriguing fucking start to the. To the thing at Spock's court martial. He explains himself with mysterious footage about when Captain pike was kidnapped by powerful, illusion casting aliens. So, as you may remember, Captain pike was the captain of the Enterprise before Kirk. Before James Kirk. [00:30:07] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. [00:30:08] Speaker A: Boxer with pike for, like, seven years. [00:30:10] Speaker B: Did they now? I hate to bring it back to the animated series. Didn't they do an episode with pike on the animated series? Am I misremembering that? Maybe they didn't want to think you're. [00:30:19] Speaker A: Correct, but I'm not. Of the 13 or so I've rewatched so far, no. [00:30:23] Speaker B: Okay. It was definitely later on. It was like, end of season two. I want to say, if I remember, you're probably right. [00:30:29] Speaker A: You're probably right. That is exactly why I'm rewatching it, because I kind of ripped through it, and it's all kind of a blur. So I kind of want to break it down, but, yeah. [00:30:35] Speaker B: And they did. They mentioned pike in any of the JJ Abrams movies. [00:30:39] Speaker A: 100%. He was Bruce Greenwood. [00:30:42] Speaker B: That's why I'm trying to think of what I remember him. [00:30:44] Speaker A: That's why. [00:30:44] Speaker B: Okay. Very good. [00:30:45] Speaker A: Okay. [00:30:46] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. Okay. [00:30:46] Speaker A: So Anson Mount also please him that the flagship show for Star Trek right now on Paramount is strange new worlds, and it's about their Enterprise before Kirk and, you know, poor Kurt. [00:30:55] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:30:56] Speaker A: So it's Spock and Ohura and Captain Pike. I mean, Kirk's in it here and there, but he's not the captain of the Enterprise yet anyway. [00:31:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Right, right. [00:31:02] Speaker A: So, yeah. So. So, um. So here's what happened. So, in 1966, they made a pilot for Star Trek, okay. Called the cage, with Jeffrey Hunter playing Captain Pike, Leonard Nimoy, a Spock, and a few other people, but it never aired. Not in the sixties, anyway. They didn't like it. They wanted more action it was too cerebral. So they brought in a different actor, which is a weird choice to begin with, but they brought in William Shatner, reshot the pilot, and that became Star Trek. [00:31:30] Speaker B: Jeffrey Hunter played Pike in the original episode. [00:31:33] Speaker A: Correct. [00:31:33] Speaker B: In the original series, Jeffrey Hunter, I'm trying to think is it's not the same actor from the searchers, is it? He plays, you would know, my friend in King of Kings. I gotta look this up now. Go ahead. This is intriguing to me. Go ahead. [00:31:46] Speaker A: Get to it. Yeah, look it up. I'm not sure. Anyway, so they never aired the pilot. So in a clever way, to sort of use what they already shot, they incorporated that original unaired pilot, but fully filmed fully everything into this plot of this episode. So when I mentioned Spock's court martial, he explains himself with mysterious footage. The mysterious footage was the unaired pilot. So I thought it was a very clever way to use what was just going to sit on the shelf. Anyway, so Spock is on trial for kidnapping Captain pike and taking control of the Enterprise and bringing it to Talos Four, which is you're not. You're banned from going there. It's one of Starfleet's general orders. You can't go to Talos because of the aliens and how powerful they are. So they use this footage as evidence in the trial to, you know, for Spock to try to exonerate himself or at least explain his actions. Captain pike, at this time, spoiler alert, is, like, completely paralyzed, and he was completely fucked up in an unrelated accident. Interestingly enough, something that is a plot point on strange new worlds. They made it so he could sort of see his future, and he knows that's going to happen, so it creates a lot of conflict for Anson Mount and the character on strange new worlds. Anyway, I like the menagerie. It was a great episode, and a really, like I said, a really clever way for 1960s NBC to use an unaired pilot that was never going to get aired. And they pretty much just showed it half the time. It was like a clip show of a clip that never aired. You know what I mean? So it was interesting, but they saved a ton of money on a two parter, ended up being one of the most popular episodes of the series. It was a fun episode. [00:33:19] Speaker B: Wow. Yeah. I gotta say, that is a clever way to do it. And for some reason, it's not the description you read, but Spock, you know, anytime Spock's involved with some kind of a thing like that, it sounds like it's gonna be interesting. I don't know. I mean, you know, it is. [00:33:32] Speaker A: I mean, let's not. Let's not kid ourselves. Spock episodes are the best. And when he is, you know, off character from being a stoic vulcan, it's always funny. When he gets drunk, it's funny. It's always funny. There was an episode of strange new worlds in season two where they took away all of his, like, vulcan side. So he was just, like, this fun loving human. It was really weird to see, you know, the actor Ethan Peck play Spock like that, but it was a lot of fun. [00:33:55] Speaker B: Wow. [00:33:55] Speaker A: No, good episode. Like I said, you know, I was delightfully surprised. I was almost not dreading rewatching it, you know, because I just rewatched the show, but it's almost like, all right, I got to do my due diligence. I got to watch it. And I didn't think it would make the top ten, but it definitely did. You made number eight, so good job. Original series. Really? Maybe look forward to re watching that again at some point soon. [00:34:15] Speaker B: Wow. That's the menagerie. [00:34:18] Speaker A: The menagerie, that's right. Very popular episode among fans. All right, so we've had next Gen. We've had original series. Let's go to another show. Let's do lower decks, baby. [00:34:28] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:34:29] Speaker A: So I can't stress how much you would love this episode and the show. Enough said. [00:34:33] Speaker B: I got. Well, I gotta tell you, I watched the animated series. Now you already. I do want to watch next Gen, but I'm also, like, dying to go jump into the next cartoon. Cause I'm like a fucking child to watch lower decks. But I want to give next Gen a chance. I just been watching so much other shit here. But I'm going to. I'm going to get into next gen. Yeah, you will. [00:34:49] Speaker A: Like I said, if you. You know, if you get to, like, if you make it to halfway through season two and you're just not into it, it may not happen, but my money's on you're going to be into it by then. [00:34:57] Speaker B: No, I'll definitely get into. I'm a fucking nerd. I mean, what are we kidding here? As much as I make fun of Star Trek because it's boring and fucking stupid, I. No, no, no. I will definitely enjoy it. [00:35:07] Speaker A: You know, you got a busy month. There's a lot going on for you this month, which is exciting. But after all that, maybe we'll be able to dive back in. I'll come up. We'll watch, like. Maybe watch, like, two or three episodes in, like, a, you know, a drunken stupor and kick it off, you know. [00:35:19] Speaker B: Well, not to go on a side attention, but I know on our other podcast, the high five, coming out soon here eventually. But we did historical figures. I watched this Franklin show on Apple TV. Michael Douglas played Ben Franklin. It was okay. He was very good. The actor was good. It was kind of, like, a little boring, but it was fine. And now I'm knee deep into this. There's a book out called Manhunt, and they made a tv show on Apple plus about. It's about the, you know, assassination of Lincoln and hunting down John Booth. I mean, this has been done a million times. But like I said, if you know anything about the conspiracy thing, like I said, it wasn't just Lincoln. It was. They were trying to kill the vice president, the secretary of state, and, you know, Patton Oswalt's in it. But the guy, the main actor, was from Game of Thrones, and I forget the guy. Goddamn actor's name. And he played the. He was supposed to marry the fray girl, I think. And I'm gonna fuck this. No, he plays Stanton, the guy that. I think he was secretary of war. [00:36:17] Speaker A: Okay. [00:36:18] Speaker B: You know, so he was helping involved with, you know, trying to track down Booth. Nothing. Anyway, I've been watching that. You know, I'm jumping around from that, and I do want to watch. Exactly. And I do want to watch the store. I. I know you've given up, and I know I'm gonna cause a riot on the Star Trek pod here by talking about Star wars, but, uh, I do want to check out the acolyte thing, even though I've been hearing rough things. But. But I will. I will get the next. [00:36:42] Speaker A: Good luck. [00:36:42] Speaker B: It's. It's not. I know. I know. [00:36:44] Speaker A: I know, Hayden, because I'm a Trek fan. I love them both. It's just like I'm Star Trek. Star wars is taking a big break from me. I can't do it right now. [00:36:52] Speaker B: Let me. I'm as. I'm just as diehard as you are, or were, at least with Star wars. And it's very hard for me to get through some of these. But. Yeah, but, um. But anyway, I will get the next gen, and I will get the lower deck. So let's get to the lower decks episode here where we got the lower decks. [00:37:07] Speaker A: Number seven, veritas. So this episode is a 7.6 on IMDb. Mariner, Boimler, Tendy, and Rutherford are caught off guard when aliens force them to testify about a series of seemingly unrelated events. Fun episode, bit of a cheat when you realize the, you know, the twist at the end anyway. But basically, they get, you know, beamed at his planet. And the whole bridge crew, who they are not. They're the lower decks, you know, so they aspire to be. Well, some of them aspire to be bridge crew. They're all, like, in suspended animation, and they're clearly on trial in a clink style court, and they have to testify as to what happened during a certain day. And four of them have a different, you know, story about what happened to them that day. Freaking hilarious. [00:37:52] Speaker B: Wow. [00:37:53] Speaker A: Every episode is freaking hilarious. So saying that doesn't, you know, enhance your knowledge of what I'm saying at all. But, you know, it's just a fun show. Was a fun showcase for them to kind of each of the characters a different type of humor, really. So. So it's kind of fun to see that what their perspective is and each of the adventures is wholly different. So it's just a lot of fun. And like I said, without saying too much, it is on this list as a bit of a cheat. But, I mean, who cares? I'll tell you. So, like, at the end, it turns out it wasn't a trial at all. It was like a celebration, but they didn't know that. So the whole episode, they're, like, interrogated courtroom style witnesses and blah, blah, blah. But it turns out it wasn't a celebration at all. The lights come on and there's, like, balloons and shit. It was really fucking hilarious. But, you know, that's why I said was a bit of a cheat, but really fun episode. Had to make the list for me. [00:38:39] Speaker B: I was gonna say this. I don't know why my mind went here, but I was just thinking about, you know, this show in general is like, you know, because I think thinking about you, like, you know, forget about even Looney tunes. I'm just thinking about Simpsons, family guy, american dad, futurama. Like, all these cartoon humor shows that I know you love. And that was like with Star Trek. You know, it's like you walk into. I picture you walk in this room and, like, Phil, the room is yours. Cindy Crawford is here. Oh, and Kathy Ireland is here, and Naomi Campbell. It's like never ending. Like, it's like, it's got to be heaven for you. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's like a comedy animated show and Star Trek. I mean, what. What else do you want? I mean, you know, it's amazing. [00:39:17] Speaker A: And the deep cuts are so fucking fun. Like. Like, you know, I was texting Luke the other night. I'm rewatching an episode and you won't get this reference, but they were having an argument over who's more badass Khan, who you've heard of, or Roka Danar. One character from one episode next Gen, like, in third season, you know, who was just some dude who, like, you know, was enhanced and he was able to, like, military tactics. And she's just like, roga Danar, get the fuck out of my face right now. Like, literally, they curse and shit on the show, too, I should tell you. A lot of awesome. [00:39:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Which has got to be refreshing, too. If you're watching Star Trek, all of a sudden this is going on. [00:39:52] Speaker A: You know, like, I mean, the newer shows, like. Like, you know, discovery and. And strange new worlds, they definitely curse on there. Like, you know, f bombs, like, lower deck. So they're always like, shit. You know, they definitely. It's a little more. It's a little more contemporary, which is good. I mean, I don't have a problem with it. You know, Gene Roddenberry, rest in peace, might have had a problem with it. Oh, definitely. [00:40:11] Speaker B: Definitely. You know, I don't. [00:40:12] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's fun, and it was more important. Really? Me or Gene Roddenberry? [00:40:16] Speaker B: Well, we know. We know it's Roddenberry. [00:40:19] Speaker A: Of course. Yeah. All right. Anyway, that was number seven. So courtroom, let's get into it now. Back to next Gen. Okay. One of my favorite episodes, it's got an average 7.2 on IMTV. This is called Devil's do. This is a fun episode. You'd like this one. So when answering. Sorry. While answering a distress call, Picard finds himself not sure of exactly who he is dealing with. But he's sure he's not dealing with the planet's version of the devil as she claims to be. So this is a. This is a huge suspension of disbelief episode. Like, this is this nonsense. But the actress who plays Ardra, the devil, is a lot of fun. And it's one of those episodes where, like, I know it's the middle of Trek season four, but part of me is like, shit, how they gonna get out of this? It's actually one of those episodes. The devil, so she claims, comes back to this planet and demands that they all be enslaved under her. Turns out, a thousand years earlier, there's some contract on record where the planet was just dying, like, socially, economically, and the devil supposedly said, I will give you a thousand years of peace and prosperity if you all agree to, you know, give me your souls at the end of the thousand years, they had nothing to lose. So they agree again. Thousand years ago, who knows what the fuck happened? So now the prophecies all start to come true. And these people who are intelligent and, you know, and, you know, they're in. They're not in the federation, but they have, you know, modern capabilities. They're like, oh, fuck, the devil's coming. Like, because they believe in this ancient, you know, thing. So picards like you. Give me a fucking break. You kidding me? You know, so they're all like, this ain't happening. But they can't really disprove it. And legally, since they're on another planet's sort of jurisdiction, they have to kind of go through an arbitration in order to prove that she's not who she says she is. The arbitration is where the courtroom style comes in. Data has to play the judge because he's the only one capable of being impartial, not afraid of the devil, you know? [00:42:15] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:42:16] Speaker A: Picard is the prize, you know, the defense, I suppose. And Arjura, this actress, is the prosecution. It's a lot of fun, especially when Picard, spoiler alert, turns the tables on her and, you know, start showing as much magic as she does. It was. It's a fun, fun episode. [00:42:32] Speaker B: Now, in the episode like this, does Picard know more than the audience knows? And you're. You know what I mean? You're trying to figure out what Picard knows, or do you know everything he knows about what's going on until the. [00:42:45] Speaker A: Very end, you know, everything he knows. They sort of saved, like, they saved, like, the final, like, puzzle piece. Kept it secret. So when he does this in a courtroom style, it's more dramatic. So, like. Yeah, that's why it really is a courtroom episode. Because when Jordy figures it out and he tells Picard, because, okay, this is what I want you to do. And then it cuts to the final scene in the courtroom, you know, and then Picard's like, all right, I'm gonna do this. You know? So, yeah, that's what makes. That makes the courtroom kind of. Kind of fun, right? There's almost every episode picker, my cousin Vinnie, you mentioned, right? Where the chief of police walks in and he sort of motions to Vinny and Vinnie goes over and he, like, whispers in his ear, like before, like, you realize what he's talking about. So it's exactly like that. You know, every kind of be like that, you know. But it's a lot of fun. You know, Ardra was this sort of sultry you know, whore. I mean, she really was. Now, the suspension of disbelief is just. It's ridiculous in this episode. Like, it makes no sense to, like, she actually. One of the. One of the. Whatever. One of the things in the contract said that she owned anything on the planet and anything in orbit. And since the Enterprise was in orbit, she claimed she owned the Enterprise. Now, I mean, it's ridiculous. I don't know what her end game was. There's no way, like, the Federation would have let her. Even if she was the devil, they wouldn't have let her take control of the enterprise and take all these Federation citizens. It was fucking stupid. She actually. She was a con artist and bit off more than she could chew for no reason. Kind of a weird episode in that respect. But the way they presented it, if you just go in without a brain, it's a lot of fun. Alright, let's keep it going. We got down to the top five kids. We've done next Gen, we've done the original series, we've done lower decks. Let's do strange new worlds for number five. A good season two, episode 8.6 on IMDb. This is ad astra per espera. All right, don't worry, I will translate. Commander Oona Chin Riley faces court martial, imprisonment and dishonorable discharge from Starfleethe. You know, so not much of a synopsis there, but, you know, I'll tell you a little bit more about it. First of all, ad astra per aspera means to the stars through hardships, or interestingly enough, through hardships to the stars. You may remember bomber, and listeners out there probably don't. Why would you. But, hey, you know, I give you more credit than I give myself. When we did the episode titles pod, and I told you my number one was enter arma inum salient legis. And I did a little research on that title, and it turns out, with Latin, certain translations, you could say them, you could sort of flip flop words like, there's no. There's no guaranteed, like, translation for ad astra peraspera. It could be to the stars through hardships, or you could say through hardships to the stars. It kind of doesn't matter. Flip flops. So you can go both ways. Anyway, the episode itself translated that. I did not have to look that up. The episode did it. I rewatched this episode. What a great episode. So, Commander Una Cinderella, played by Rebecca Romaine, who was a mystique in the X Men movies, and she was married to John Stamos, briefly great job on this episode. Great job in the series in general. So spoiler alert. If you haven't seen the end of season one of strange new worlds or or season two of strange new worlds, okay, spoiler alert. Una chin Riley is an Illyrian. So an Illyrian are genetically enhanced. Illyrians are genetically enhanced. Much like Khan is genetically enhanced. Okay. Illegal in the Federation for some obvious reasons. Khan and, you know, the, like. Tried to take over the world in the 1990s of Trek history, obviously. I know I said this before. It was a sad day in 1996 or whenever when, like, Trek history was officially didn't happen. You know what I mean? Like, when when the history of Star Trek actually, you know, kind of happened in the 1990s. I'm sure it was before that. But anyway, blah, blah, blah. So, yeah, so so this is this is what's great about Star Trek. So, you know, in the original series, it was, you know, all these plot twists and plot, you know, stories were metaphors for racism or sexism or, you know, religious persecution or, you know, I mean, like, that's what Trek does. Well, it's social commentary. It really is. You know, sometimes it's in your face and too much and too obvious. But sometimes it's pretty subtle. And I think this is one of the instances where you can easily take, you know, prejudice against people who have been genetically enhanced. Whether it's against their will or not. That's the new. That's the racism of the 24th century. Right. Or the 22nd, 23rd. 24th century. That's the racism of modern Star Trek. Like, they're still not perfect. Starfleet isn't perfect. Federation is not perfect. They're striving to be perfect. Which was eloquently put in this episode, by the way. But but, like, that's how Star Trek sort of talks about racism in this utopian 23rd century, right? It's prejudice against genetically enhanced people. But we all know that's a metaphor for prejudice against, you know, sexual orientation or prejudice against racism. So so that that was the episode. She was illyrian, and she lied about it. The second person on this list who lied about their Starfleet application to get in to and keep it a secret. We'll get to the other one. And, uh, you know. So, yeah, so so it was just a great way to confront that. A great. So she's on trial, court martial. You know, they, um they were going to just dishonorably discharge her. She didn't want the deal. She pled not guilty. So they threw a fucking book at her. Like I said, it's courtroom episode. Um, they got a civil rights lawyer to protect her. You know, literally a civil rights lawyer. Um, another great performance by the actors. I don't know her name. And, you know, it was different because it wasn't. Um, none of the crew other than her was involved, other than being witnesses. Like, the captain wasn't fighting for her or anything. They were just kind of sitting watching. Really great episode. A lot of heart. Um, you know, some great, uh, editing when it came to the, you know, to the courtroom witnesses and such. Um, just a solid fucking episode. I agree 100% with the 8.6. It was really well done. It's what strange new worlds. Pretty much done does 99% of the time. It's quality fucking show. Worth seeing everybody, if you haven't started it. So number four, oddly enough, I just mentioned it. So number four is almost exactly the setup as number five. Number four is the drum head. An episode I've talked about a lot lately, so I'm not going to go into it too much. 8.4 on IMDb. [00:48:50] Speaker B: What show is this? [00:48:51] Speaker A: This is next gen. Oh, it is next Gen. A lot of next gen. I know. 8.4 on IMDb. A retired admiral boards the Enterprise in an effort to determine the actions aboard the ship surrounding the act of sabotage and possible treason. So this episode, one of the people being interrogated in this episode falsified his application to Starfleet, saying that his paternal grandfather was a Vulcan when it really was a Romulan. So it's interesting, like both situations, the people ended up in front of a, you know, on the stand because they lied on their Star Trek application. Anyway, Starfleet application, I should say Star Trek application. They wanted to join Starfleet, not the show. Star Trek. Anyway, a phenomenal episode. 8.4. It's one of the best episodes next gen has. It was on my top ten next gen list. You know, it'll be up there when I do season four for, you know, next Gen. So again, I'm not going to go into too much, but a really great episode. This is the one, the drum head. Remember, I told you how, you know, it's based on out in the field, like, you know, army, when they wanted to, you know, play judge, jury, executioner, they would just flip the drum head over, sit on it, and you would be, you know, tried right there, you know. [00:49:58] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes, yes. [00:49:59] Speaker A: An intriguing episode. You know, duck from, uh, I think it was duck from Mad Men plays, you know, Simon Tarsus, the. The, um, medical, uh, you know, ensign or whatever. Who was. Who was interrogated. So. Yeah, so, again, I'm not gonna go too much into it, but drum head. Great. Um, you know, courtroom style, you know, Picard ends up being, you know, called to the stand to be, uh, berated. So it's an interesting episode. Really well done. [00:50:21] Speaker B: It's the description you read sound like a Jerry Springer episode or something. I'm like, what are we doing here? [00:50:27] Speaker A: It kind of is. Yeah, I mean, a lot of these, you know, and certainly, you know, the admiral that I mentioned in the synopsis, like, she. She, you know, she goes hard, a little hard into the drama. You know, she kind of had drama of her own going on. That's what fucked her up. But, you know, like I said, a really great episode, you know? So I'm not gonna go too much into that. We talked about it a lot. So let's. Let's steamroll right through this to, I want to say, our last next gen episode. Yes, it is. Top three. Let's do it. This is the last next gen episode we got on here. It is the highest rated episode on this list. It's a 9.1. [00:50:59] Speaker B: Wow. [00:50:59] Speaker A: You know what? Let me fact check that real quick. Yep. Highest one on the list. 9.1. So another episode I've talked about ad nauseam lately, measure of a man. This one was just on my next gen season two list. I could not parrot, sketch it. I couldn't leave it out. It's a great courtroom episode. Data goes on trial. Does he have rights? Does he have the right to choose a. Or is he property? When data resigns his commission, rather than be dismantled for examination by an inadequately skilled scientist. Sorry. A formal hearing is convened to determine whether data is considered property without rights or is a sentient being. So, I mean, I'm sure even you, Bomber, are familiar with this episode by now. I've talked about it so much, so I'm not going to go, you know, deep into it. I've talked about the emotionality of the episode, but just a little bit about the courtroom aspect of the episode. I mean, it's really cool. You got a judge advocate, you know, general who's. Who's, you know, overseeing it. She forces Riker to be the prosecution. You know, cards, the defense. You know, Bruce Maddox wants to dismantle Data to learn and make more, you know, androids. Really cool couple cool court moments. Like I mentioned, when Data's honors and medals are being readdez. You know, Riker was like, I will stipulate to all this cards, like, no no, no, I want it read one of those cool courtroom moments where he feels like it'll have a better impact on the judge. There was no jury, but, you know, he thinks if, you know, the judge hears all the things that data's done, he's more of a person than he is a machine. Blah, blah, blah. A lot of cool moments. The bombshell, as Mack would put it, was definitely Riker removing Data's arm, which was fucking crazy. Just really. Some really cool, you know, twists and turns in the court, in the proceedings itself. I mean, that's why it was made the list. And the episode is just so phenomenal. Had to be at least top three, in my opinion. Do you remember me talking about this episode bomber? [00:52:50] Speaker B: I do. In fact, I was gonna say measure of an attention span, because I'm ready to go to sleep hearing about it again. There's just so much fucking measure of a man. Holy shit. No, I was gonna say stupid. [00:53:04] Speaker A: I've known you for so many years. Still. I still, to this day, don't know whether you're gonna. Zigger, Zach, have time. I really don't. [00:53:12] Speaker B: Is data, like this c three po character? Like, is this too horrible to say? That was like, you know, like, it's. [00:53:19] Speaker A: It's. If there was a c three po in next generation, it would be data. Absolutely. [00:53:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Just when you said they took his arm off, whatever. It makes me think of, like, you know, like. Like, for us, seeing c three are getting torn apart or whatever, it's always like, holy shit. You know what I mean? Obviously, data looks more human, and then. Then c three just put data right. [00:53:39] Speaker A: On his back and, you know, random through the cloud city. [00:53:42] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. That's what I was thinking. But. But I feel like the idea of the robot, you know, or whatever, the. You know, whatever. Data. [00:53:52] Speaker A: Android. [00:53:52] Speaker B: It's okay to be Android going on trial. I like that. The idea is definitely a cool idea. So. Yeah, no, I like it. [00:53:59] Speaker A: And, I mean, there's one of the more in your face examples of, you know, social commentary. [00:54:04] Speaker B: Right? [00:54:04] Speaker A: Like, they literally were saying the words property. They said the word slavery a couple times in the episode. Didn't make it any less relevant, especially, you know, in 1988. But, you know, it was just so well done that it kind of didn't matter. Like, it doesn't matter that you're on the nose if you do it the right way. Yeah, it was a really, really great episode. Talked about it a lot. Won't talk about it. Let's move on now. [00:54:22] Speaker B: Are we done with next gen. We are. [00:54:25] Speaker A: Next gen is done. And by my count, I said we had six shows. You've only seen four. So number two and number one are both new shows. [00:54:31] Speaker B: Now, I know you didn't include the inquisition one, but you gotta have some kind of deep space nine. Have we heard from that show yet, or. [00:54:39] Speaker A: We have not heard from deep space. Now, we had the honorable mention of DaX, you know, number eleven, but nope. So we're going number two, not D. Space nine. Voyager. So this is an episode that I did have on my top ten cue list. This one is called Death Wish 8.3. As Voyager's captain chain way conducts a hearing for asylum tied to a suicidal Q's right to die. Really? Interesting. So there's a Q who's been trapped in this comet for, you know, millennia, right? They accidentally free him, and he's like, oh, thank God. Now I want to kill myself. He can't take the boredom of immortal life. He's seen it all, done it all for millennia. He is just done. He just wants to fucking die. The Q, who are, again, a plural and a singular. So the main guy who plays Q, who you saw on next gen's pilot episode. Yeah, he is part of the Q. He's Q, but he's also part of the queue. They're all called Q. Kind of confusing if you don't know the show. If you know the show, it's fine. So, yeah, so Q shows up and he's like, you can't kill yourself. We don't know what that would do to the continuum. No Q has ever killed himself before. So it becomes a question of. He requests formal asylum on board Voyager. So it becomes a question of, do we allow him to kill himself? Or, you know, do. Do we, for the good of the species, you know, take that right away from him? Again, social commentary, right? This is right up there with Doctor Gavorkian, right? The suicide machine. Like, do we have a right to end our own life? [00:56:07] Speaker B: No doubt. Yeah. And when you say the cute, for some reason, my mind went to, like, Green Lantern. Like, there's a lot of green lanterns or whatever the fuck it is. That what it is with the Q? [00:56:14] Speaker A: You know what? That's pretty accurate. Yeah. They're all Green Lantern, right? Just from different species and such. [00:56:18] Speaker B: Right, right, right, yeah, pretty much, yeah. [00:56:20] Speaker A: So they're all cute. They just kind of. They've always been and they always will kind of thing, you know, don't wrap your head around that. You know, it'll fall apart. But, you know, they were there for the big bang before the big bang, and they'll be forever, you know? You know? So I will talk about the. The. You know, the episodic story aspects other than the courtroom in this episode, because a lot of cool stuff in this episode that don't, you know, involve the courtroom or they do, but, like, they take it. You know, they take a trip to, like, you know. You know. Objection, your honor. Let me show you why it's torture for me to live like this. And then they spend ten minutes in the Q continuum and that kind of thing. But the actual court proceedings are pretty damn cool. You know, Q plays, you know, the prosecution and the other Q, you know. Sorry. Tuvok defends the other Q, you know, with his. With his right to, you know, to choose to kill himself. Cool moment where Q brings Riker on board Voyager to give testimony and then wipes his memory and sends him right back to the enterprise. So, like, you know, he never remembered being on Voyager, but a really cool episode. A clever way for, you know, Jonathan Franks to get into yet another trek show. He's been on most of them. He was on next Gen, D space Voyager, lower decks, enterprise and Picard, of course. So he's on, like, six different shows. [00:57:36] Speaker B: It's crazy. They're gonna have to fucking AI him into the original series at some point. [00:57:42] Speaker A: I know, which is kind of funny, because technically, some members of D Space Nine were in the original series, which is fucking amazing episode, but we'll get to that another day. But, yeah, so, death wish, really cool courtroom style episode. It was an arbitration for asylum. Jamway played the role of the judge. Just. Just, you know, really cool. At one point, Q, you know, calls himself as a witness and speaks to himself and very cheesy, you know, 1996, you know, technology, you know, but, I mean, it looked okay. [00:58:08] Speaker B: Now, now, Phil, would you be bored with immortality? [00:58:12] Speaker A: I'll give it a shot. I wouldn't mind giving it a shot. [00:58:16] Speaker B: I'm with you there. [00:58:17] Speaker A: You know, I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be 50 in a couple months, so let's give the immortality a shot. What do you say? [00:58:23] Speaker B: I was gonna say the one thing I was thinking about when you talk about Q going through that, like, you know, I'm sure some things would get boring, but I'm also thinking, like, I just feel like I would be fucking devastated with, like, the amount of people I missed over, like, all that time, you know what I mean? Like. Like, if you had friends from, like, 100 years ago or 200 years ago, or 500 years ago, like, fuck a man, I missed that motherfucker. You probably, I don't know. You know what I mean? [00:58:45] Speaker A: Like, I mean, that's true, right? That's, that's. You see that actually, believe it or not, you see that storyline actually, it was sort of touched on in next gen, but like, even like, american dad, like, Roger goes through an existential crisis where, like, he knows he's gonna live beyond them. So, like, he gets depressed that they're all gonna die. Like, you know, it's sort of a common sort of science fiction slash fantasy, definitely. But it's still cool to think about, you know. [00:59:08] Speaker B: Oh, definitely. Even think about, you know. And the other thing I was asked was, is everybody privy to the idea that he is this way? You know, I mean, like, I'm just picturing, like, you're sitting at a bar, like, yo, man, there was a fucking redhead in the 16 hundreds, man. You know what I mean? Like, and they're like, whoa, what are you talking about? [00:59:21] Speaker A: You know what I mean? Like, you could just go back to that time. So if you're a Q, you can go anywhere. [00:59:25] Speaker B: So you're right. Oh, okay. [00:59:27] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, you could. I mean, they actually, in one of the. And actually in this episode, he was hiding from Q at first and he hid in the big bang at one point, which was really kind of interesting. [00:59:36] Speaker B: That's hilarious. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. [00:59:37] Speaker A: Yeah. So, you know, it's kind of fun. So they can do whatever the fuck they want. Um, but, you know, so if you're a Q, you can just. Alright, I'm gonna go start and do it all over again. Let me go meet that redhead in the 16 hundreds and, you know, do what I gotta do. But, but I give immortality. Like, you're not going back. You just keep going forever, you know? [00:59:54] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's very interesting. We can go on a whole day there, but now, now we're going to number one and, and, and are we gonna get deeper? Are we going to get deep space here? What are we getting here? [01:00:06] Speaker A: We're getting deep and you know what I mean? If you know it's a courtroom style episode and you know it's deep space, maybe you already know the episode I'm talking about. It's not by any means a home run. This is just one of my personal favorites, one of my comfort food episodes. It's called rules of engagement 7.3 on IMDb. Let's talk about it. When Worf destroys a civilian shuttle during an engagement with the Klingons, an extradition hearing is held to see if he must face charges. So basically what happened is Worf is in command of the defiant the ship that D space nine finally got in the third season. So he pretty much, you know, lived on the defiant and commanded a lot of the missions on the Defiant. Worf joined deep space in the fourth season. So this is like a few episodes into the fourth season maybe like nine or ten episodes into the fourth season he's in control of a mission. They're protecting a convoy of, I don't know, medical supplies or something. And they're in this firefight with the Klingons who we were, you know, battling with at the time. We, us humans, you and I, bomber. We're battling with the Klingons at this. [01:01:08] Speaker B: Time and we should be. [01:01:10] Speaker A: And the Klingons are cloaking and decloaking and firing and then cloaking again and disappearing so they can cloak their ships, they can go invisible. So they're decloaking right in front of them. Worf sees a pattern, fires. Turns out it's a civilian ship and he kills, like, a bunch of innocent people. So he is on trial now by the Klingons because it was a Klingon, you know, civilian transport. You know, obviously there's twists and turns in this but here. Here's why. This is number one and this is a really cool episode, actually. I think it was directed by Levar Burton, actually, who played Jordan Forge on next Gen. Yeah, but double check that. I think it's definitely by an actor but I'm pretty sure it's Levar Burton anyway, you know, and the whole episode is pretty much the courtroom, which is cool. This is. This is a fully, fully fledged courtroom episode. And, you know, Cisco is defending Worf. This Klingon prosecutor is, you know, is making the case for, you know, the klingons and they're bringing witnesses and doing all that. And there's a. There's an, um. I want to say a Vulcan judge but I can't really remember for sure. I could see the actress's face but I can't see her ears, if you can believe it. Anyway, so the reason why this is kind of cool is not only do they go through all the, like, the cool twists and turns that a courtroom does but. But it does something that, to my knowledge, Trek has never done before or since. Now, I could be wrong about that. I'm thinking hard. They break the fourth wall, which is really interesting for a Star Trek episode. So while they call, say, dax to the stand, she's talking. They cut to what she's talking about. And the middle of a fight, she turns to the camera and continues her testimony. Really, really interesting way to do that. Um, you know, um, they do it, uh, they do it only in the reenactments, not in the actual courtroom itself. So they kind of get away with doing like a fourth wall type thing. But I love that choice. I think it's really cool. I think it really, um, you know, focuses, you know, not your attention, but it's a great way to stress what they're talking about. It's a great way to, like, connect with the audience. I know that sounds simple and obvious, but in a trek show with all this techno babble, I like the decision a director would make to say, no, no, talk right to the. Right to the camera. You know, that way at the very least, you know, you're hearing all this techno shit, but you're still connecting with the actor, with the story, with the line, with the dialogue. Really cool. And like I said, I don't know why this became comfort food for me. Like next gen. I mean, sorry, deep spaces. Season four was a real. They really hit their groove. They started to hit it in season three, but season four, wharf joins. They really start to talk about the Dominion war and the shape shifters and all that. And it really, really hits a good groove. And this kind of came in right at the perfect time where they were still at, you know, war with the Klingons. Great episode. Great actor. Ron Canada, who played the Klingon prosecutor. I don't know if you know him or not, but he's a very deep spoken african american actor. Big eyes. [01:04:04] Speaker B: He's. [01:04:04] Speaker A: His presence is very tailor made to play a Klingon really well. [01:04:08] Speaker B: Is there any other I might be able to know him from? Or. [01:04:11] Speaker A: I know he was in a bunch of episodes of the West Wing. You know, I know him from that. I know I've seen him in a bunch of other episodes of stuff, but I can't think of anything right now. But Ron Canada is interesting name, right? So. [01:04:24] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Is he canadian or is it just the, you know, I don't think so. [01:04:28] Speaker A: But I keep it wrong. No idea. Yeah. So, I mean, just. Just a really cool episode. Rule of rules of engagement, a really, really fun personal app from. From DSpace nine, season four. I love that. And for me, it personifies this. Listen, I mean, this is the quintessential courtroom style trek episode for me. [01:04:44] Speaker B: Yeah, but that's what I was gonna say was that, you know, for some reason, I was gonna say, when you started talking about courtroom thing, I know I'm gonna bring the three stooges into this, but they have a classic episode called disorder in the court. [01:04:57] Speaker A: Disorder in the court. I knew that. [01:04:59] Speaker B: And it made me think of, like, you know, it's the idea of what you would picture it to be. It's just. It's a courtroom thing, and the stooges come in, and they fuck everything up. Like, there's witnesses to a yemenite thing, you know? And I think that there's something about what the world that you're into, it having its own thing. So, like, for you, like you said, quintessential Star Trek courtroom episode. Like, this is a courtroom Star Trek. You know what I mean? Like, it's. [01:05:25] Speaker A: This is how this. [01:05:26] Speaker B: How they're gonna do it. Yeah. [01:05:28] Speaker A: You know, I also like the subject. [01:05:31] Speaker B: I also like that, the idea that it's 7.3 and a rating, but this is your number one. Like, this is what makes the list the best. I feel like. You know what I mean? It's like someone else. [01:05:39] Speaker A: It's not the best episode on this. Listen. But it's the best courtroom style episode on this list. Measure a man, the drum head like death wish. All episodes that I would say are better at Astra Peraspera. I'd say those five are, like, better than this episode as far as just even the menagerie. But, you know, for a courtroom style Trek episode, doesn't get better than this, in my opinion. And like I said, that fourth wall choice puts it over the top for me. That's what always made it super unique for me. I felt like I wasn't. And, you know, deep space Nine, when you have any tv show, when you have a slate of 20 something episodes, like network television used to have or still does, but, you know, not a lot of people watch as much network as they used to. You're gonna have Lulz, right? You're gonna have these episodes that are not gonna be sweeps episodes. They're not gonna be big guest star episodes. They're just running the mill. You know, here's the problem. Get out of it. Go home. And this broke that up by having that fourth wall break. This became a unique episode because it dared to do something different. Yeah, I say dared because next. I mean, Trek didn't really do this, you know? And again, please, if you. If you're all out there and you could think of another instance where a Star Trek episode broke the fourth wall, I mean, I'm sure lower decks did it at some point. But, and I know these old scientists, the episode they just read on strange new worlds, the crossover between lower decks and strange new worlds, that definitely played with meta storytelling and, you know, fourth wall breaking and stuff like that, but in just a general, you know, run of the mill trek episode, this was something different. [01:07:09] Speaker B: So, you know, someone out there going, objection. Fuck you, Phil. An enterprise is 18 episodes of the. Break the fourth wall. You're an idiot. [01:07:18] Speaker A: Do it, man. Do it. I'd love to see the objection. You're a fucking idiot. Here's why. Here's the 17 reasons why I would. [01:07:24] Speaker B: Love to see that. I'm totally wrong. [01:07:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Hey, you know what? So that's, uh, that's all I got, man. That, that's. That's my courtroom style episodes. It's, you know, it's not something that, um, you know, I even thought about doing a list of when we first started doing this pod, but, like, just, you know, that's what's great about track. Everyone did. There's such a. Such a slate of episodes now from all these different shows that you could pretty much say, oh, you know, let's do the best trash can episodes, and. [01:07:50] Speaker B: We'Ll find fucking, you know, I gotta be honest. Like, again, I from. From bright previous, like, the younger me, knowing nothing about Star Trek. Like, if you said this to me, like, ten years ago or something, you know, oh, we're gonna talk about Star Trek courtroom episodes, like, the fuck, you know, I mean, this. This courtroom and start, you know, I have no idea that, let alone ten episodes, whatever the fuck it is. You know what I mean? Like, it's interesting. Yeah. [01:08:12] Speaker A: Doctor space here. Those two idiots fucked up more than usual. That was the end of the recording. That's where they stopped it. So, anyway, thanks for listening, as usual. Reach out to us at st. Warp 10.com or TikTok, Instagram, same thing, St. Warp 10. Sorry you had to listen to those fucking idiots for over an. Over an hour. Jesus Christ. Okay. Love.